290/390/Fury are high end not mid/low.
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AMD Polaris architecture – GCN 4.0
- Thread starter Boomstick777
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290/390/Fury are high end not mid/low.
AMD had poor OpenGL performance because they never put the effort in to drivers. I don't see why they will suddenly change their operating mode for the last 20 years. The first indications are already nvidia is ahead on drivers and developer resources.
It is nothing to do with AMD not putting the effort into the drivers, a large part of it is to do with a lack of conformance tests for OpenGL versions beyond 1. Therefore the same methods don't always work the same between all three vendors hardware.
There was also a large part in Nvidia getting their hardware into developer machines and then getting the devs to use specific methods which their drivers handle very well.
The largest problems with OpenGL are a lack of conformance and hundereds of methods for doing the same thing.
Which is why Vulkan was needed for years on the desktop. And Opengl ES has only just caught up to OpenGL 3-4, making it usable for gaming on the desktop. Considering Opengl ES has far better drivers due to detailed conformance tests. As well as cutting out all the legacy guff and streamlining the number of methods.
I probably should have said "how did that work during the 290/390/Fury era of products".
There AMD put efforts into the midrange to get market share, then (supposedly) used that to help the high end, but Nvidia still managed to make more money and take market share. Going for midrange volume seems to get trumped by the high end halo effect no matter what.
Nvidia always manage to do the marketing better and more effectively than AMD, and this hasn't changed in years. AMD acts like they expect to be second place.
I think maybe AMD are going for the low-mid sector with volume sales(Polaris). While it may not be good for people in the high end market it is where the money is.
If they could shift a lot of units in the low to mid markets it would bring the revenue in and enable them to start fighting in the high end(Vega), plus it would claw market share back. Of course this is all my own opinion and maybe miles off the mark
The 970 was by far the greats selling card of recent times, and nvidia has very definitely gone for the same approach this time round. Don't underestimate the sales of the 1070 compared to the lower end. And then there is the fact that profit margins are higher the higher up the stack you go. The low end is not what is used to be because iGPU has taken a huge chunk of the low end away.
I see no reason why Polaris will not match 980Ti/Fury X speeds or within a few perfcent for a similar or even lower price to 1070. The fact Nvidia are leaving a ~£180 gap between 1070 and 1080 prices IMHO either indicates 1070 is not that good (relative to 1080), or more likely they expect Polaris to match them in price/perf at that level.
P10 is allegedly up to around 2560 Shaders which is similar to R9 390. So If Polaris is aiming for ~R9 390/X replacements then with architectural improvements, core clock enhancements and other improvements they should give a ~25% - 30%+ performance improvement over R9 390. That would bring them right up around 980Ti/Fury X speeds or even slightly higher. This is all on a chip with a 40% reduced die size than 1070. Now add in the DX12 improvements and for DX12 games they could well easily exceed 980Ti and Fury X speeds.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/R9_390_Nitro/23.html
Don't make assumptions that AMD are out of the game just yet when it comes to matching or beating 1070 on price/perf.
Let's wait and see. AMD have 2-3 weeks before Pascal is released, so hopefully they can put some actual tangible news out before then.
AMD's P10 core will massively outsell anything in recent history. GP104 certainly won't.
So your expecting a chip that is considerably smaller, uses considerably less power, has a bus half the size, than the 390/X to perform half as fast again.
As that is what it will need to do to match a 1070. ( the TitanX is about one and half times faster than a 970/980 ergo 390/X and we were told the 1070 beats the TitanX)
The new node shrink has shown to offer good performance, as seen by the NVidia launch, but I think you are asking a just a bit too much.
The P10 has already been demoed running Hitman at 60fps @1440P. That is 980ti/Fury X levels and since the demo was locked at 60fps we don't know how much more headroom there is on top of that. From benchmarks the TitanX gets about about 60fps max.
For reference here is a comparison between a 390 and 970 running the same game at 1080P. You can see that both cards don't hold 60fps even at 1080P unlike the P10 demo @ 1440P which suggests the P10 is more powerful than a TitanX is this game at least.
For reference here is a comparison between a 390 and 970 running the same game at 1080P. You can see that both cards don't hold 60fps even at 1080P unlike the P10 demo @ 1440P which suggests the P10 is more powerful than a TitanX is this game at least.
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Soldato
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I see the value of 980's dropping to around the 200 mark, and the 970 around the 160 mark shortly, should the 1070 be £300. The 980ti won't be worth more then £280. This puts AMD in a really tight spot. I wonder what price point they'll come in at
What are next weeks lottery numbers, thanks!
You have no idea what settings were used so it is fairly irrelevant.
We have see leaked benchmarks that put big Polaris between 390 and 390x performance, that makes sense given the ship size and power and ties in with AMD's information about mainstream and low-end parts. We will see soon enough.
I'm not saying Polaris chips are bad or will be a failure. My opinion is simply they are aiming for a lower-end market so therefor,Anne will obviously not be there to compete with nvidia mid-high end. AMD needed more power efficient smaller low end chips but they also need some performance cards.
Caporegime
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It turned out that wasn't maxed.
Chances are the 970/980ti will be discontinued. Nvidia will probably not continue selling a 980ti for £260 and eat into the 1070's sales.
I expect P10 to be competitive with the 1070 in the £200-£400 bracket. Chances are AMD may release 2 versions of P10 , Pro and XT.
Unless Nvidia keep selling the 970/980 in the £180-£200 segment there will be no competition for AMD. Alternatively, 1060 variant will have to be faster than a 980 to compete in that bracket.
If P10 is simply 390/390X performance then it needs to be less than £200 otherwise it's pointless since we already get the 390 at £250 right now.
source?
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Caporegime
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It was posted somewhere on here not long after it was demoed when it was found, AMDs just replacing the minimum spec for VR cards (the 970/290s) with cheaper faster ones (as they'll be around the 390s performance).
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Soldato
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You have said this before and i asked where you seen it. The settings were never disclosed as far as i know. Some were speculating it was maxed but it was never proven what the setting were i don't think.
The people on here were saying it was not proven to be maxed out as nobody knew the settings. This was in reply to those that assumed it was max settings.
All the leaks for Polaris have clocks anywhere between 800-1150. Surely AMD can do better than this judging by what Pascal has shown so there could be a lot more in the tank. AMD might not be showing there full hand yet as both manufacturers are known to play possum.
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Caporegime
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As i said above, it was posted on here somewhere, as i too thought after the Hitman demo, it was around the FX/Ti performance as everyone was saying, but that changed to the 390s.
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