AMD Polaris architecture – GCN 4.0

[Rroff]

It doesn't look at my edit to the previous post. If you look at the period starting the 2900XT to the HD6970,ATI only had the fastest card once and they still defended their marketshare.

The ATI HD3870 was noticeably slower than an 8800GT(I had an HD3870 and a 8800GTS 512MB,so it was easy to check),and they never dipped below 30% and that was with Nvidia having 4 faster cards and if anything AMD has concentrated on the highend more times since GCN since then.

Yet,they lost marketshare.

AMD trying at all costs to match Nvidia on the highend is costing them.

They went off from the "small die strategy" to large dies and the costs have ballooned up for them and so is the money they make is even less.

AMD has to destroy Nvidia at the high end for enthusiasts to ever buy them,and if they match them it is not good enough.

Best for them to start small again and fight smaller challenges IMHO.

They don't necessarily need a halo card (that would be a big waste of resources right now) - but what they'd be trying to do if they don't have a higher card is like releasing the 4850 without the 4870 it would have fallen flat on its face then and its likely to do that now.

There is but people around these forums and most likely others are buzzing about the price/performance. The great sales of the gtx970 were nothing to do with the gtx980. It was more what people were getting for the money. I see nothing different here if the price and performance is spot on. Would it help if vega was out and beating up the gtx1080/70 most likely.

Amd have been going head to head with Nvidia to no avail so are trying something different. I think they can steel some sales here and maybe get some big contracts with this approach.

The GTX970 wouldn't have looked as attractive without the cards above it though it needed those reference points for its performance/price ratio to stand out and nVidia's market share and halo products also helped to promote it.

 

[D.P.]

That is targeting 1070 like performance at a reasonable price point - I can't remember the exact average but it is something like 40% faster than a 970 - the nVidia numbers IIRC were like 1.6x perf but that was from a limited number of games.

The 1070 is around 60-75% faster than the 970 with slightly less power.

So I don't think a 40CU Polaris 10 will make it that far. 40/36 CUs is 11% theoretical gain which is probably about 7% in the real world. There could be a a Hugh clock as well, 1500Mhz would be around 18% theoretical boost., so maybe combined around 20-25% faster than 480 at the most. For $300 that is a nice card. The 1070 would still be noticeably faster but costing another $80.

Maybe Hardocp were right and AMD did have problems (or more liekly GF) and they intend to have a 480x with the full 40Cus at higher clocks but this is what they can get at this time.

 

[Ferrari100]

On most tech and gaming forums people are quite positive about it - places like PCMR on Reddit,etc.

This is actually one of the more negative places about it. The most vocal negative people tend to be a minority of enthusiasts who never would buy this kind of card anyway. It was the same negativity some had about the HD3850 and HD3870 and even the HD4850 and HD4870. Certain enthusiasts were negative about those too since they were not top dog but they did fine.

For them £50,here,£75 there,£40 here is nothing for them when for lower end parts it is actually a big difference. This is the same people who probably would never see the point of a Core i3 when a Core i5 is "only" £50 more.

+1
AMD Reddit was trending its highest ever yesterday and people from all over the world use that site. People are generally extremely positive. Like most people who are not wrapped up with reading to much into the debate, I am just looking forward to how AMDs 480 performs when it arrives.

 

[Rroff]

This is actually one of the more negative places about it. The most vocal negative people tend to be a minority of enthusiasts who never would buy this kind of card anyway. It was the same negativity some had about the HD3850 and HD3870 and even the HD4850 and HD4870. Certain enthusiasts were negative about those too since they were not top dog but they did fine.

It is that kind of 4870/4850 line up (with the "4870" card positioned somewhere around the 1070 - doesn't have to match it but close) they need to be hitting hard right now.

If they had that setup hitting retail tomorrow at the right price point nVidia would be scrambling.

 

[Ferrari100]

The 1070 is around 60-75% faster than the 970 with slightly less power.

So I don't think a 40CU Polaris 10 will make it that far. 40/36 CUs is 11% theoretical gain which is probably about 7% in the real world. There could be a a Hugh clock as well, 1500Mhz would be around 18% theoretical boost., so maybe combined around 20-25% faster than 480 at the most. For $300 that is a nice card. The 1070 would still be noticeably faster but costing another $80.

Maybe Hardocp were right and AMD did have problems (or more liekly GF) and they intend to have a 480x with the full 40Cus at higher clocks but this is what they can get at this time.

...which is why I believe that there high binned chips have been taken by APPLE. If that story holds any credence I am sure its not through production issues but APPLE and their deep pockets.

As long as AMD give us what they say they will for the $200 RX480 (VR entry - @390ish level) there is no problem

 

[N19h7m4r3]

...which is why I believe that there high binned chips have been taken by APPLE. If that story holds any credence I am sure its not through production issues but APPLE and their deep pockets.

As long as AMD give us what they say they will (VR entry - @390ish level) there is no problem

Not only Apple but possibly Sony and Microsoft as well; although Apple had sickeningly massive discounts when it came to those D700 FirePro cards on their 2013 Mac Pro line.

I do hope AMD saying they're launching cards from $100-300 means we get a 480X as well that's got a healthy increase in Stream processors, and possibly clocks as well.

Even so the 480 does look like a great performance to cost card, but AMD does need more.

 

[Rroff]

Even so the 480 does look like a great performance to cost card, but AMD does need more.

I can't entirely get over the fact people are getting excited by what on paper is the kind of performance (albeit not so much in DX12 games these days) I've been getting from my 780 for more than 2 years now.

 

[Ferrari100]

Not only Apple but possibly Sony and Microsoft as well; although Apple had sickeningly massive discounts when it came to those D700 FirePro cards on their 2013 Mac Pro line.

I do hope AMD saying they're launching cards from $100-300 means we get a 480X as well that's got a healthy increase in Stream processors, and possibly clocks as well.

Even so the 480 does look like a great performance to cost card, but AMD does need more.

2013 was one of AMD's toughest years I think. Anything to get cash in at that stage.

One way I look at the prospect of AMD not releasing other mid-range cards now (who knows if they will or not, a select few people have the answer) is that if they do not, they can spend more time putting the finishing touches to Vega for us.

 

[tommybhoy]

Well just looking at threads like this one and others on different forums, AMD's idea seems to have backfired somewhat. They seem to have wanted to cause debate, about the RX480 performance, but everyone seems to be talking about NVidia cards instead. Of course if it wasn't AMD's idea to get people talking about the RX480 performance then they should have made their performance comparison nice and plain and simple, to avoid all this debate in the first place.

^
Your'e talking about it-job done.

Well played AMD(never thought you had it in you) it's actually put a dent in Nv's Pascal promotion.

Anyone who truly does not sit on the fence can only see part of the picture-it's always clouded so most see only what they want to see.

Not every gamer salivates at tech they can't afford, that's why sub $200 sales make the real cash.

Anyone who truly couldn't give a **** about what a card >$200 can do as it's out of their reach any way-stopped and took notice.

 

[Ferrari100]

I can't entirely get over the fact people are getting excited by what on paper is the kind of performance (albeit not so much in DX12 games these days) I've been getting from my 780 for more than 2 years now.

Your GTX780 did not cost $200 new or use such a lower power consumption.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It is that kind of 4870/4850 line up (with the "4870" card positioned somewhere around the 1070 - doesn't have to match it but close) they need to be hitting hard right now.

If they had that setup hitting retail tomorrow at the right price point nVidia would be scrambling.

The thing is,I mentioned this a while ago,as much as we are in the dark at the final figures,so is Nvidia.

They could easily give rebates on the GTX970 or GTX980 or drop a limited time offer for this month to give people who bought an Nvidia card free games if AMD gave final figures now.

Remember,the HD3000,HD4000 and HD5000 launches were so secretive we had no clue what the performance was.

Have you noticed AMD has done the same thing too??

They have no cards to launch but everybody is discussing them??

The point is we don't know,what AMD is up to. Some could be correct it will be worse than a R9 390 at £200,and I will quite happily go MEH when it launches.

But,OTH,AMD might be lulling Nvidia into a false sense of security as their current high end cards are still decently faster and Nvidia might feel they don't need to react.

The true competitors are the GTX1060 and GTX1060TI. This is what AMD needs to be wary of.

^
Your'e talking about it-job done.

Well played AMD(never thought you had it in you) it's actually put a dent in Nv's Pascal promotion.

Anyone who truly does not sit on the fence can only see part of the picture-it's always clouded so most see only what they want to see.

Not every gamer salivates at tech they can't afford, that's why sub $200 sales make the real cash.

Anyone who truly couldn't give a **** about what a card >$200 can do as it's out of their reach any way-stopped and took notice.

You summed it up better than I ever could.

 

[Rroff]

Your GTX780 did not cost $200 new or use such a lower power consumption.

Given the length of time I've had out of it I've got some pretty good value for money, power consumption isn't that terrible on the GHz edition either - the B1 stepping is something like 7% more power efficient over the original A1 780s or something.

 

[Tute]

It seems to me that AMD are basically putting out a smaller, simpler chip first to test yields and mature the process. It also has the advantage of going for the mainstream market (i.e the biggest).

Then when nVidia show their 1080Ti hand, bring Vega in to have a pop at that, most likely with HBM2 backing it up.

The only thing i'd like to see is a Polaris 480X to match the Fury X, but I expect that won't be far behind the regular 480 regardless.

I'm also excited by the size of the PCB used. RX 480 Nano anyone?

 

[Rroff]

But,OTH,AMD might be lulling Nvidia into a false sense of security as their current cards are still decently faster and Nvidia might feel they don't need to react.

I very much hope so and I've intentionally worded it to not rule out that possibility.

 

[AlamoX]

It is that kind of 4870/4850 line up (with the "4870" card positioned somewhere around the 1070 - doesn't have to match it but close) they need to be hitting hard right now.

If they had that setup hitting retail tomorrow at the right price point nVidia would be scrambling.

i dont agree, you still think that AMD need high end position to change ppl's mindset about the brand, and a card wont do that not even a successful line up, ppl's mindset is pretty much nvidia's, changing that they have other things in mind, from console & pc drivers, new API, to multi-gpu down the road, all they need is time to pass by for things to start shifting in their favor with least amount of work done.
but what is vital right now is market share, for them to be able to influence software & games creation the way they want.

 

[Nutella33]

Given the length of time I've had out of it I've got some pretty good value for money, power consumption isn't that terrible on the GHz edition either - the B1 stepping is something like 7% more power efficient over the original A1 780s or something.

Irrelevant if you don't have the money to buy a top range card to keep you going for years tho isn't it? Look at what $200 got you two years ago and do the comparison. Then look at the options now with the 480, not just on performance now but dx12 future performance and features at the price range. It's a stand out card, that's why it's getting love.

Finally, I got 3 good years out of a 7970 and I'll buy high tier again in a bit, I'm excited because it shows significant progress, which has implications for the higher levels when they are released, and I'm hoping it's a return of the good clockers from AMD.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It seems to me that AMD are basically putting out a smaller, simpler chip first to test yields and mature the process. It also has the advantage of going for the mainstream market (i.e the biggest).

Then when nVidia show their 1080Ti hand, bring Vega in to have a pop at that, most likely with HBM2 backing it up.

The only thing i'd like to see is a Polaris 480X to match the Fury X, but I expect that won't be far behind the regular 480 regardless.

I'm also excited by the size of the PCB used. RX 480 Nano anyone?

Thats the thing - I suspect if that is the standard PCB,we might find many cards reasonably short anyway!

I very much hope so and I've intentionally worded it to not rule out that possibility.

Yeah,but we will see - we will see if the promise meets reality!! Just hope they don't get too blinded by the light!!

 

[AlamoX]

I'm also excited by the size of the PCB used. RX 480 Nano anyone?

small pcb huge cooler beats me, i hated that on fury pro, i can't believe they did again with the 480, i honestly hope that they do like 300series, and let only AIBs custom to retail or review samples, because i dont trust a cooler designed for 300 series to be any good for polaris, might get the job done at some extent, but will probably be as bad cooler as the 1080's or 290's

 

[D.P.]

...which is why I believe that there high binned chips have been taken by APPLE. If that story holds any credence I am sure its not through production issues but APPLE and their deep pockets.

As long as AMD give us what they say they will for the $200 RX480 (VR entry - @390ish level) there is no problem

That is also plausible.

 

[Mauller]

small pcb huge cooler beats me, i hated that on fury pro, i can't believe they did again with the 480, i honestly hope that they do like 300series, and let only AIBs custom to retail or review samples, because i dont trust a cooler designed for 300 series to be any good for polaris, might get the job done at some extent, but will probably be as bad cooler as the 1080's or 290's

They needed that overhang to be able to fit the impeller fan. It would have not been a rear exhausting blower cooler without that extra bit of overhang.