AMD Polaris architecture – GCN 4.0

[Rroff]

If it wasn't for AMD you can forget HBM. But you have a point, this is why It's fine for AMD to do what they can to make Async as valuable to them as they can. At the end of they day, when Nvidia are just as good at it, it's the consumers that win overall.
Nvidia, as Oxide devs have already stated by way of Nvidia requesting they do not use ASync at all, would prefer nobody have such technology, is that right this should happen?

I used to be an ATI fan - but I got fedup of the number of great firsts they'd have but then I'd sit watching nVidia users actually able to enjoy those features and that didn't change much under AMD. Though to their credit they have substantially improved the driver side of things over the last 2-3 years or so compared to the ATI days (which was the other reason I switched as it got the point I was juggling 3 sets of ATI drivers depending on what game I wanted to play that day).

 

[D.P.]

Yes TrueAudio is still being fully supported.. if you had watched the webinar that has just been you would know that they intent to use it for 3d audio positioning in VR and was listed as an important feature of Polaris.

I just don't see it in many games. It's a shame because it is great technology and sound has largely been ignored by developers in favor of graphics.

 

[Mauller]

I just don't see it in many games. It's a shame because it is great technology and sound has largely been ignored by developers in favor of graphics.

Because graphics have had dedicated processors for years while dedicated sound processing was killed by creative in the early 2000's.

The sound team only have a tiny budget of CPU time for audio, it can take a lot of the cpu's time to get realistic environmental audio that is wave traced with reverb, diffraction, etc.

 

[Ferrari100]

Yer, I thought he might ease up a bit on the negatives but not the case sadly.

Read through the posts. I was discussing Async and not being negative about Nvidia.
It was another poster who come in and started mocking AMD.
If you have a problem go straight to a mod right now and let them decide.
I assume that you must have read the other posts though so please explain why you are trying to make me look bad when it's others who have come into this thread and put AMD down.
I will happily inform a mod myself as I believe there are a few here who are clearly trying to silence me because I am talking about something I am passionate about in an aproppriate thread.

 

[Ferrari100]

I really don't care what Harmony wants, I see you spreading what is essentially thinly disguised (which is quite transparent in the light of other information) fud in regard to nVidia and I don't personally agree with it - anyone can look through your posts in the Pascal thread, etc. and make their own minds up.

You came into this thread and I did not mention Nvidia at all until you started mocking AMD'S historical decisions. I am perfectly entitled to discuss my passion in this thread although there a a few trying to silence me here.
I am excited of what AMD will include in their future hardware and wish to discuss it without others coming in here negating what I say.
A mod can read what has been posted here by me and the people I have reported and make their own mind up.

 

[Gregster]

Read through the posts. I was discussing Async and not being negative about Nvidia.
It was another poster who come in and started mocking AMD.
If you have a problem go straight to a mod right now and let them decide.
I assume that you must have read the other posts though so please explain why you are trying to make me look bad when it's others who have come into this thread and put AMD down.
I will happily inform a mod myself as I believe there are a few here who are clearly trying to silence me because I am talking about something I am passionate about in an aproppriate thread.

I don't have a problem but there are many of us here passionate about computers and show our passion through our posting style, I don't care for any of this stalking stuff (I have been on the receiving end) and I am genuinely interested in what AMD are bringing. I have concerns with both AMD and NVidia in truth and some being DX11 and some being DX12. I just don't like the fact that some are putting so much emphasis on DX12 and to a point that it looks like NVidia can't cope in anyway, shape or form and sure, AMD will most certainly have the upper hand when ACE is involved and could even show a lead with Vega if the rumors hold any substance but at the present here and now, I have no worries with NVidia and DX12, the same as I have no worries with AMD and DX11.

Having not checked on this at all and I assume with you putting so much emphasis on DX12 etc, what games are coming with DX12 and will Polaris/Vega be able to cope with CR and ROVs better than the software (I assume that is the only way they could get away with it) implementation that current AMD cards have?

 

[fs123]

I really don't care what Harmony wants, I see you spreading what is essentially thinly disguised (which is quite transparent in the light of other information) fud in regard to nVidia and I don't personally agree with it - anyone can look through your posts in the Pascal thread, etc. and make their own minds up.

Let's all praise Nvidia the saviors of the GPU. Banish all who speak against them. So what if they don't supprt Async, it's only a backwards feature right? Parallelism is doomed I say.

 

[Rroff]

You came into this thread and I did not mention Nvidia at all until you started mocking AMD'S historical decisions. I am perfectly entitled to discuss my passion in this thread although there a a few trying to silence me here.
I am excited of what AMD will include in their future hardware and wish to discuss it without others coming in here negating what I say.
A mod can read what has been posted here by me and the people I have reported and make their own mind up.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=29530248&postcount=4657

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=29515968&postcount=4466

etc. etc. pull another one.

Let's all praise Nvidia the saviors of the GPU. Banish all who speak against them. So what if they don't supprt Async, it's only a backwards feature right? Parallelism is doomed I say.

If you look through my posting history in regards to Polaris and Pascal I think you'll find a good balance of negative and positive posts for both (anyone is free to look).

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

We can't make a comment on how Pascal handles async until we get a few more games with it activated to see how it performs. Async can help the AMD cards but it is extra performance,not the primary mode of performance - most of the DX12 performance is not only async. Hence if Nvidia can perform in other ways better than AMD they will still be competitive even if AMD might be ahead in that one feature.

 

[D.P.]

Let's all praise Nvidia the saviors of the GPU. Banish all who speak against them. So what if they don't supprt Async, it's only a backwards feature right? Parallelism is doomed I say.

1) No one is praising nvidia, merely pointing out why DX12 multi-engine support is different between different vendors, that there is no right or wrong way to do it. And why nvidia don't care as much about it - because they just don't need async compute like AMD does to get the most utilization from the GPU.

2) Nvidia does support async compute.

3) no one has said it is a backwards feature. Quite opposite in fact, I have repeatedly said it will very important in future generations when core counts increase substantially. It is just hopefully it so important for Polsris as it is for Fiji because hopefully AMD have made a more balanced GPU. If AMD heavily rely on async compute for any performance gains it will be extremely disappoint and show they haven't resolved some of the fundamental problems with Hawaii and Fiji. But I'm confident AMD have a brand new architecture and not a rehash of Fiji, the rumors support that viewpoint. But sure, if you want to believe that AMD haven't fixed their GPU front-end and are just adding more brute-force compute then be my guest. Everyone is welcome to their opinion before the facts get revealed, I just have more confidence in AMD In doing the right thing this time.

3) Async isn't synonymous with parallelism.

 

[Ferrari100]

I don't have a problem but there are many of us here passionate about computers and show our passion through our posting style, I don't care for any of this stalking stuff (I have been on the receiving end) and I am genuinely interested in what AMD are bringing. I have concerns with both AMD and NVidia in truth and some being DX11 and some being DX12. I just don't like the fact that some are putting so much emphasis on DX12 and to a point that it looks like NVidia can't cope in anyway, shape or form and sure, AMD will most certainly have the upper hand when ACE is involved and could even show a lead with Vega if the rumors hold any substance but at the present here and now, I have no worries with NVidia and DX12, the same as I have no worries with AMD and DX11.

Having not checked on this at all and I assume with you putting so much emphasis on DX12 etc, what games are coming with DX12 and will Polaris/Vega be able to cope with CR and ROVs better than the software (I assume that is the only way they could get away with it) implementation that current AMD cards have?

I have not emphasised DX12 at all. Only Async compute which is part of the whole. I do not know much about ROPS etc and have never suggested I do.
Any further enhancements AMD make to their new architecture I'd great. Primitive discard looks really promising as does the ability to dynamically shut down parts of the GPU when not required, instead of sitting there idle. Forthcoming Async based DX12 titles include Total War Warhammer, the new Deus EX and appararently all Frostbite games but I am not so sure about that.


I was considering buying a 1000 series this year but without Async compute I changed my mind.

Also, I appreciate your change in attitude.

FYI I am a trainee computer science teacher at Senior School and love discussing my passion with pupils there.

My favourite topics are parralel programming and I love teaching my pupils the difference between sequential and parralel compute execution using the Python programming language.

I also love HSA and the benefits it will bring over the next few years. I also love being able to build a PC in front of my pupils, they are genuinely fascinated when you turn it on and everything just works.

 

[Rroff]

But I'm confident AMD have a brand new architecture and not a rehash of Fiji, the rumors support that viewpoint. But sure, if you want to believe that AMD haven't fixed their GPU front-end and are just adding more brute-force compute then be my guest. Everyone is welcome to their opinion before the facts get revealed, I just have more confidence in AMD In doing the right thing this time.

Certainly very strong indications that they've rejigged their async and related hardware substantially and made significant changes to the geometry pipeline.

 

[Rroff]

My favourite topics are parralel programming and I love teaching my pupils the difference between sequential and parralel compute execution using the Python programming language.

Sorry I hate to be that guy but in the context of your post I really had to.

EDIT: So the talk of you working for an AIB is wrong/mistaken identity/pure BS?

 

[Ferrari100]

Sorry I hate to be that guy but in the context of your post I really had to.

EDIT: So the talk of you working for an AIB is wrong/mistaken identity/pure BS?

I did some repair work on faulty GPU'S for a couple of years while studying my computer science degree. Yes. So no, it was not me lying.
Do I own shares? Yes. That's my business and I was just as passionate about amd before that as I am now.

I was asked whether I worked in certain areas which I do not. I have not lied

You say you care not for this harmony poster but if you were to retrace recent posts you might now realise that he actually has been, for want of a better word, stalking me.
Do I care? No but it is clearly having an influence on how others perceive me and I will defend myself for that.

All I want is to discuss my passion. It seems that whenever somebody praises or pushes AMD to do better, others don't like it. I'm sorry but that's not right.
I am in a relevant thread discussing what I believe to be AMD's best asset right now. By all means add some constructive criticism, it's good for everybody, but there is no need to be negative.

 

[Gregster]

I have not emphasised DX12 at all. Only Async compute which is part of the whole. I do not know much about ROPS etc and have never suggested I do.
Any further enhancements AMD make to their new architecture I'd great. Primitive discard looks really promising as does the ability to dynamically shut down parts of the GPU when not required, instead of sitting there idle. Forthcoming Async based DX12 titles include Total War Warhammer, the new Deus EX and appararently all Frostbite games but I am not so sure about that.


I was considering buying a 1000 series this year but without Async compute I changed my mind.

Also, I appreciate your change in attitude.

FYI I am a trainee computer science teacher at Senior School and love discussing my passion with pupils there.

My favourite topics are parralel programming and I love teaching my pupils the difference between sequential and parralel compute execution using the Python programming language.

I also love HSA and the benefits it will bring over the next few years. I also love being able to build a PC in front of my pupils, they are genuinely fascinated when you turn it on and everything just works.

Parallel programming you mean?

As for DX12/ACE/ROVs/CR/others, I was talking in the big picture terms. I am genuinely interested in how NVidia will be coping with Async and how their iteration will get programmed in from the developers and if it indeed makes a difference compared to how AMD deal with Async but I am sure over the next couple of months, we will see what is what from NVidia. I want to see DX12 (non Microsoft app store thingy) take off and get used to its full extent and with games that push the PC to its fullest. I see games that look jaw droppingly good like ROTTR and especially The Division (that I have sunk close to 460 hours in so far) and can't help but think to what extra level they could have gone had they gone straight for PC exclusivity (which will never happen).

All I can say is having used both AMD and NVidia, both do a great job. AMD tend to annoy me, as they have this and that and never seem to push this and that. D.P mentioned it earlier and AMD came up with tessellation and NVidia were catch up guys, move on a few years and AMD still can't cope. Whilst I massively want AMD to do well, they also need to help themselves and push their techs like TrueAudio. Take PhysX for example and whilst it does a great job with smoke etc, NVidia pushed and pushed this. AMD had Bullet Physics and ermmm.... nothing. Mantle was a fantastic addition for AMD and something that really could have given them a push but for some strange reason (money I guess), they gave it up. One of the bigger things I liked with AMD was Mantle as well and running BF4 in Mantle on my 290X was very very good but running on my Fury X was shockingly poor and I still don't think it has been fixed?

Just my tuppence and ramblings.

Ohhh and I fully expect to be getting Vega when it arrives. From my early Polaris reading, I don't feel that is aimed at the likes of me.

 

[Ferrari100]

Parallel programming you mean?

As for DX12/ACE/ROVs/CR/others, I was talking in the big picture terms. I am genuinely interested in how NVidia will be coping with Async and how their iteration will get programmed in from the developers and if it indeed makes a difference compared to how AMD deal with Async but I am sure over the next couple of months, we will see what is what from NVidia. I want to see DX12 (non Microsoft app store thingy) take off and get used to its full extent and with games that push the PC to its fullest. I see games that look jaw droppingly good like ROTTR and especially The Division (that I have sunk close to 460 hours in so far) and can't help but think to what extra level they could have gone had they gone straight for PC exclusivity (which will never happen).

All I can say is having used both AMD and NVidia, both do a great job. AMD tend to annoy me, as they have this and that and never seem to push this and that. D.P mentioned it earlier and AMD came up with tessellation and NVidia were catch up guys, move on a few years and AMD still can't cope. Whilst I massively want AMD to do well, they also need to help themselves and push their techs like TrueAudio. Take PhysX for example and whilst it does a great job with smoke etc, NVidia pushed and pushed this. AMD had Bullet Physics and ermmm.... nothing. Mantle was a fantastic addition for AMD and something that really could have given them a push but for some strange reason (money I guess), they gave it up. One of the bigger things I liked with AMD was Mantle as well and running BF4 in Mantle on my 290X was very very good but running on my Fury X was shockingly poor and I still don't think it has been fixed?

Just my tuppence and ramblings.

Ohhh and I fully expect to be getting Vega when it arrives. From my early Polaris reading, I don't feel that is aimed at the likes of me.

My absolute personal opinion and logical reasoning, as far I am concerned, is that until Nvidia put ACES in their hardware there implementation will not compete.
I am happy to be proven wrong, believe me.
I THINK that the primitive discard accelerator will have a lot to say when it comes to culling triangles that do not need to be rendered.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

AMD pre-release threads have more drama than EastEnders lol.

 

[Phixsator]

The way i understood the webinar Polaris has been recieving some major overhauls and changes so i would argue that AMD themselves have said through the slides they show and what was said in that webinar that Polaris is not FIJI. Of course i could be stupid and have misunderstood what was said. People should really watch that thing.

 

[Gregster]

My absolute personal opinion and logical reasoning, as far I am concerned, is that until Nvidia put ACES in their hardware there implementation will not compete.
I am happy to be proven wrong, believe me.
I THINK that the primitive discard accelerator will have a lot to say when it comes to culling triangles that do not need to be rendered.

NVidia might well have to rely on the brute force approach and going by AoTS, that seems to be doing ok so far. I am far from an engineer and only those at NVidia know what is what so far, so give it time to settle and then will know for sure. You can then say "I told you so" or I can

 

[Ferrari100]

The way i understood the webinar Polaris has been recieving some major overhauls and changes so i would argue that AMD themselves have said through the slides they show and what was said in that webinar that Polaris is not FIJI. Of course i could be stupid and have misunderstood what was said. People should really watch that thing.

Fiji had a lot going for it. I had a Fury X for a while. No one can actually say it does not compete well against a stock 980ti.

It's small Form Factor and unique cooling system was a nice change to the norm.
Also it was the first outing for HBM. All things considered it did a good job although maybe not for the enthusiast.