AMD THREADRIPPER VS INTEL SKYLAKE X

[zornyan]

https://youtu.be/inH278yCXvo

interesting results here, I'm sure some of this must be due to a bios update

tldw: ran a 360mm loop instead of the 280mm AIO.

temps dropped 25c roughly

on AIO he got 4.6ghz at 1.2v, with temps hitting 90s and spiking near 100c

on custom loop he got 4.7ghz at 1.2v with temps in the 60s (said a few spikes to 73 but mostly 60s)

with the same voltage, and 100mhz more the power draw dropped by nearly 40w??

with 100mhz higher clock he got on average 15-20% increased performance on just about every benchmark.

so, clearly some of this has to be a bios upsate, as 100mhz should be what? 2-3% at most?

guessing the bios is also what reduced the power draw by about 10%?

 

[zornyan]

okay so no msi boards for me then.

another update from der8auer

""Today I've tested the X299 Gaming Pro Carbon AC: At 4.6 GHz, Prime26.6 (non AVX!) at 1.25V the CPU got throttled by overheating VRMs already after 10 minutes.
[...]
I'm going to test the X299 Gaming M7 ACK tomorrow. The X299-A by ASUS is throtteling at 4600 MHz @1.25V."

so seems like

msi has cheaped out on the vrms, so they can't handle even non avx load.

neither can the asus boards, the gigabytes can but they've throttled them by covering them in heatsinks that increase temps largely.

seriously though, asus/gigabyte could have the beat power solutions and seem to have ruined it so badly they're throttling under load, guess I'm going to have to wait for the APEX in a few weeks if it has the 'correct' vrm heatsink

 

[DragonQ]

with 100mhz higher clock he got on average 15-20% increased performance on just about every benchmark.

so, clearly some of this has to be a bios upsate, as 100mhz should be what? 2-3% at most?

Only possible if it was throttling beforehand.

 

[Panos]

What are the chances there will be a m-atx board for thread ripper at launch ?

Quite low to non at all. Hell we might not see ATX ones and only E-ATX.
Reason is the socket is humongous.

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

I said binned and dellided ones can reach 5ghz yes. I will do some binned 7900X CPU's for sale on our site with these kinda clocks.

Ah right knew I wasn't imagining it.... maybe.

 

[zornyan]

Ah right knew I wasn't imagining it.... maybe.

I just wanna know what boards are gonna be capable of 5ghz on a 7820x without issue.

so far

msi m7 and gaming pro can't handle anything above 4.6ghz.

gigabytes are all thermal throttling because the heatsinks increase temps by a fair bit.

Asus prime can't go past 4.7 ish without temp issues, apparently the apex and rampage are being held back to change the thermal pads/heatsinks after der8auer showed them how poor it was

 

[Nickolp1974]

My money would go on the Apex without question, will be the #1 board for OC

 

[haszek]

I just wanna know what boards are gonna be capable of 5ghz on a 7820x without issue.

so far

msi m7 and gaming pro can't handle anything above 4.6ghz.

gigabytes are all thermal throttling because the heatsinks increase temps by a fair bit.

Asus prime can't go past 4.7 ish without temp issues, apparently the apex and rampage are being held back to change the thermal pads/heatsinks after der8auer showed them how poor it was

But how come? You said pre release 5g eaaasy with decent temps.... What happened to amd rushed but Intel....right Intel has just bios issues easy to fix.

 

[zornyan]

But how come? You said pre release 5g eaaasy with decent temps.... What happened to amd rushed but Intel....right Intel has just bios issues easy to fix.

5ghz on delid, 4.8/7 without delid, which is what we are seeing.

the only actual issue is board makers with crap vrm heatsinks, it's not even the actual vrms it's the crap plastic ontop of them.

der8auer actually got temp drops by just removing the heatsinks, with them on the gigabyte was worse and massively increasing temps.

apparently asus' problem was poor thermal pads which is why they're boards are delayed.

basically the issue is plastic crap stuck to.motherboards increasing temps stupidly.

the bios issues have been fixed before release, pretty much every reviewer has easily hit 3600-4000mhz on the ram and the initial turbo boost issue was fixed.

difference is this was pre release, ryzen had boards coming out bricking themselves after release, and still people can't get above 2993/3200 or less ram speeds unless using very specific kits.

 

[Panos]

But how come? You said pre release 5g eaaasy with decent temps.... What happened to amd rushed but Intel....right Intel has just bios issues easy to fix.

Hahhaha.

Yeah I wouldn't bother with Zornyan. Maybe if Intel releases a 2 core CPU on the X299 platform, there could be some hitting 4.9Ghz
If ofc there is monoblock for the motherboard, and dual fat 480mm rads and dual D5 pumps to move the hot water fast before it start melting the tubing.

 

[N19h7m4r3]

But how come? You said pre release 5g eaaasy with decent temps.... What happened to amd rushed but Intel....right Intel has just bios issues easy to fix.

Wait, wasn't the fact that Ryzen needed BIOS fixes and developer support a negative for the platform in the eyes of many reviewers and users?

Rather hypocritical of some now to say wait for BIOS updates, and dev support for Skylake X.

 

[zornyan]

Hahhaha.

Yeah I wouldn't bother with Zornyan. Maybe if Intel releases a 2 core CPU on the X299 platform, there could be some hitting 4.9Ghz
If ofc there is monoblock for the motherboard, and dual fat 480mm rads and dual D5 pumps to move the hot water fast before it start melting the tubing.

well seeing as 5ghz+ binned chips are coming, is say that's a given, where can you buy a 5ghz ryzen chip? hell even a 4.1ghz binned chip

but as I've always said, I'm after the 7820x which can already do 4.8ghz on a 240mm radiator, a single 360mm custom rad can drop those temps by 25-30c as shown by hardware unboxed.

so, a 360mm custom loop on a non delidded chip will get you 5ghz on the 7820.

seems I was right all along

 

[haszek]

5ghz on delid, 4.8/7 without delid, which is what we are seeing.

the only actual issue is board makers with crap vrm heatsinks, it's not even the actual vrms it's the crap plastic ontop of them.

der8auer actually got temp drops by just removing the heatsinks, with them on the gigabyte was worse and massively increasing temps.

apparently asus' problem was poor thermal pads which is why they're boards are delayed.

basically the issue is plastic crap stuck to.motherboards increasing temps stupidly.

the bios issues have been fixed before release, pretty much every reviewer has easily hit 3600-4000mhz on the ram and the initial turbo boost issue was fixed.

difference is this was pre release, ryzen had boards coming out bricking themselves after release, and still people can't get above 2993/3200 or less ram speeds unless using very specific kits.

So...you gonna delid cpu and mobo now to get 5?

 

[zornyan]

So...you gonna delid cpu and mobo now to get 5?

dont see it as necessary on the 8 core with a half decent cooling solution. 4.8 is already doable on air/240mm aio.

I'm waiting on a certain vendor to release pre binned ones though, as I can get it cheaper from the states due to currency exchange, apparently 5.1/5.2 8 cores are a real possibility.

 

[gavinh87]

well seeing as 5ghz+ binned chips are coming, is say that's a given, where can you buy a 5ghz ryzen chip? hell even a 4.1ghz binned chip

but as I've always said, I'm after the 7820x which can already do 4.8ghz on a 240mm radiator, a single 360mm custom rad can drop those temps by 25-30c as shown by hardware unboxed.

so, a 360mm custom loop on a non delidded chip will get you 5ghz on the 7820.

seems I was right all along

Ah so because the chip you want doesn't suffer as bad this is still a win for intel right?

 

[AllBodies]

So basically unless you have a delidded CPU and/or a 360mm custom rad, you need to go no higher than 4.5 GHz and stay below well below 1.2v?

Sounds greeeeaaaaat...especially given the price. Let's not forget the motherboards are very expensive too.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Probably not the best place to ask but I've tried looking at couldn't find a straight answer. Is the voltage to the CPU chip or each core?

 

[SiDeards73]

This whole platform is a joke, overpriced, over heating, VRM issues, AMD got crucified when they released Ryzen and the bios was not mature for memory, but Intel... oh they get a golden pass because its Intel.. its laughable at best.

Even at stock these chips look woeful, you have to remember stock bios usually puts more volts through a CPU than required, these chips are going to be thermally challenged from the get go, so should people buying them for Workstations have to open up the Workstation and change the cooler etc just to have them usuable?

Last i checked, the Dell Precision Workstations we buy all come with stock Intel coolers... cant see that happening on these chips, you'd have all sorts of returns and complaints.

The best part is, Intel will void your warranty if you overclock or delid these CPU's, and lets face it, delidding is probably going to be the only way to truly deal with the heat issues, cant see many companies wanting AIO based workstations in their business places.

I still maintain, if this had been Ryzen, while people would have been whooping with joy at the fact they could clock high, people would have crucified AMD for the thermals and costs etc... its sad that people are willing to put up with this type of junk from someone who has been drip feeding them minor upgrades for so long.

 

[jaffveyda]

This whole platform is a joke, overpriced, over heating, VRM issues, AMD got crucified when they released Ryzen and the bios was not mature for memory, but Intel... oh they get a golden pass because its Intel.. its laughable at best.

Even at stock these chips look woeful, you have to remember stock bios usually puts more volts through a CPU than required, these chips are going to be thermally challenged from the get go, so should people buying them for Workstations have to open up the Workstation and change the cooler etc just to have them usuable?

Last i checked, the Dell Precision Workstations we buy all come with stock Intel coolers... cant see that happening on these chips, you'd have all sorts of returns and complaints.

The best part is, Intel will void your warranty if you overclock or delid these CPU's, and lets face it, delidding is probably going to be the only way to truly deal with the heat issues, cant see many companies wanting AIO based workstations in their business places.

I still maintain, if this had been Ryzen, while people would have been whooping with joy at the fact they could clock high, people would have crucified AMD for the thermals and costs etc... its sad that people are willing to put up with this type of junk from someone who has been drip feeding them minor upgrades for so long.

That's true i don't see anyone buying those CPU's for workstation having custom watercooling loop.

 

[DragonQ]

Yes, in exchange for top-rated performance, you have to either suffer with high temperatures and possible throttling and/or lower clocks, or you have to have an expensive cooling setup, or you have to give up the warranty on the chip. All of this on top of high prices and a confusing ecosystem. I do wonder what the temperatures are like at stock using the stock cooler though, I can't imagine they are very good, especially when boost kicks in.

Meanwhile AMD's stock coolers allow reasonable overclocks of their non-X (soldered) chips out of the box, despite the obvious negative that they won't clock much further with a custom cooler. There appear to be a lot of similarities between what's happening now and what happened in the early 2000s. If AMD can improve IPC and/or clock speeds decently with Zen+ then Intel are in trouble because everything we've seen over the last few years suggests they're out of ideas besides "moar MHz". Hell, switching solder to TIM was a step backwards and is symbolic of their arrogance and I think they really do take their customers for granted (more businesses and OEMs than enthusiasts, who will still buy in droves for "the best").

I think Threadripper will be a real wake-up call for them, but Intel do have many advantanges still, such as brand recognition and existing contracts. They also have time on their side - it'll take a couple of years for important software to "catch up" to support Ryzen as an architecture, so in that time they could really shake things up if they wanted to.