AMD THREADRIPPER VS INTEL SKYLAKE X

[Chuk_Chuk]

What are the chances there will be a m-atx board for thread ripper at launch ?

I heard that smaller boards are the hardest to create, so quite low IMO.

Considering that 8pack has confirmed that he's going for 5 GHz. So time to speculate on prices for those. I'm going for £1900-£2100, with motherboard and cooler. Anyone else want to have a guess?

 

[zornyan]

I heard that smaller boards are the hardest to create, so quite low IMO.

Considering that 8pack has confirmed that he's going for 5 GHz. So time to speculate on prices for those. I'm going for £1900-£2100, with motherboard and cooler. Anyone else want to have a guess?

7900x?

1k cpu
probably one of the very high end motherboards, so something like the asus deluxe/gigabyte gaming 7?
£400-500
cpu cooler £100
ram probably £250-300?

so that's er.. £1900

+ binning and delid fees, which is about another £200-300?

5ghz 7700k is a £100 premium, which is something that most of them will hit

5.2ghz 7700k is a £550 premium over stock.

so I guess, if 5ghz is achievable on most, not a huge premium, if 5ghz is very highly binned like a 5.2ghz kabylake then expect the 7900x to cost £1500.

that's if they don't put the delidding fees up that's included.

 

[Tom B]

I heard that smaller boards are the hardest to create, so quite low IMO.

M-ATX is the same width as ATX, it's just less height. Considering most boards only have extra PCI-E slots in that extra height, I don't think it should be too difficult. Obviously you're not going to get a SLI setup on M-ATX though.

I can see ITX being a problem, though.

 

[humbug]

Intel's Skylake-X - Review Roundup and Analysis - Part 2

Not good.

#Very inconsistent performance, in a couple of occasions even slower than the 1800X.

#Very power hungry moving to insane power draw when overclocked.

#Very hot even at stock moving to almost unmanageable heat when overclocked.

Wait for Threadripper

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

7900x?

1k cpu
probably one of the very high end motherboards, so something like the asus deluxe/gigabyte gaming 7?
£400-500
cpu cooler £100
ram probably £250-300?

so that's er.. £1900

+ binning and delid fees, which is about another £200-300?

5ghz 7700k is a £100 premium, which is something that most of them will hit

5.2ghz 7700k is a £550 premium over stock.

so I guess, if 5ghz is achievable on most, not a huge premium, if 5ghz is very highly binned like a 5.2ghz kabylake then expect the 7900x to cost £1500.

that's if they don't put the delidding fees up that's included.

I hadn't considered RAM, or how much of a premium OCUK charges for dellidded stuff. Wow i was way off the mark

M-ATX is the same width as ATX, it's just less height. Considering most boards only have extra PCI-E slots in that extra height, I don't think it should be too difficult. Obviously you're not going to get a SLI setup on M-ATX though.

I can see ITX being a problem, though.

Thats a good point. I still don't think they will be high priority though considering the target audience for Threadripper. So i still think it will be quite low of a chance to see any on launch day. More likely within the first 2 months.

 

[gavinh87]

Intel's Skylake-X - Review Roundup and Analysis - Part 2

Not good.

#Very inconsistent performance, in a couple of occasions even slower than the 1800X.

#Very power hungry moving to insane power draw when overclocked.

#Very hot even at stock moving to almost unmanageable heat when overclocked.

Wait for Threadripper

No you've got this wrong its the motherboard manufacturers that are at fault

 

[doodah]

I taje he's not coming off Intel's naughty list?

 

[Rroff]

Not good.

#Very inconsistent performance, in a couple of occasions even slower than the 1800X.

#Very power hungry moving to insane power draw when overclocked.

#Very hot even at stock moving to almost unmanageable heat when overclocked.

Wait for Threadripper

Seems the CPU has been optimised (snigger) towards big data use where it does very well - looks like inter-core latency and possibly the way it despatches queues for optimal performance with large data sets, etc. is crippling it in other areas - will be interesting to see if Threadripper performs similarly - definitely something people will want to keep an eye on before jumping on these kind of CPUs for gaming use.

Intel not very inspirational of late I hope they do better once 10nm products start to emerge.

 

[N19h7m4r3]

[

Seems the CPU has been optimised (snigger) towards big data use where it does very well - looks like inter-core latency and possibly the way it despatches queues for optimal performance with large data sets, etc. is crippling it in other areas - will be interesting to see if Threadripper performs similarly - definitely something people will want to keep an eye on before jumping on these kind of CPUs for gaming use.

Intel not very inspirational of late I hope they do better once 10nm products start to emerge.

I actually want to see PcPer do an intercore latency test between it and Threadripper.

Ryzen has the lowest intercore latency of the bunch, but once you move off to the other CCX it increases to a whopping 140ns ( 110 with 3200Mhz RAM ).

Skylake X is around 100ns all round. So how will Threadripper with another few CCXs fair in latency; and what effects will that have on applications that are very sensitive to it.

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Proce...X-Processor-Review/Thread-Thread-Latency-and-

 

[gavinh87]

Seems the CPU has been optimised (snigger) towards big data use where it does very well - looks like inter-core latency and possibly the way it despatches queues for optimal performance with large data sets, etc. is crippling it in other areas - will be interesting to see if Threadripper performs similarly - definitely something people will want to keep an eye on before jumping on these kind of CPUs for gaming use.

Intel not very inspirational of late I hope they do better once 10nm products start to emerge.

Indeed, it looks like they've made a lot of trade offs with these chips and not a lot of them are paying off.

 

[Rroff]

Indeed, it looks like they've made a lot of trade offs with these chips and not a lot of them are paying off.

Definitely looking that way based on initial impressions.

 

[DragonQ]

something odd I noticed whilst browsing some motherboard reviews

at 4.7ghz 7820x 215 cinebench score (single thread)

http://www.reviewstudio.net/2484-asus-rog-strix-x299-e-gaming-review-hedt-to-a-new-level/performance

at 4.8ghz skylake-s/kabylake score 206

that 100mhz difference is worth 3 points, which means at 4.8ghz the 7820x should do 218.

so that's a 10% difference in single threaded performance?

Margin of error, plus that's just one benchmark. Look for scores for any single CPU part and you'll find a wide range of numbers, that's why it's almost impossible to gauge performance without a comparative test by the same person/group in the same circumstances.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Seems the CPU has been optimised (snigger) towards big data use where it does very well - looks like inter-core latency and possibly the way it despatches queues for optimal performance with large data sets, etc. is crippling it in other areas - will be interesting to see if Threadripper performs similarly - definitely something people will want to keep an eye on before jumping on these kind of CPUs for gaming use.

Intel not very inspirational of late I hope they do better once 10nm products start to emerge.

There is no architecture changes between Ryzen and threadripper. So we can already predict how it is going to perform. TBH the only surprise is official pricing, and base clock

[


I actually want to see PcPer do an intercore latency test between it and Threadripper.

Ryzen has the lowest intercore latency of the bunch, but once you move off to the other CCX it increases to a whopping 140ns ( 110 with 3200Mhz RAM ).

Skylake X is around 100ns all round. So how will Threadripper with another few CCXs fair in latency; and what effects will that have on applications that are very sensitive to it.

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Proce...X-Processor-Review/Thread-Thread-Latency-and-

I think someone has done it somewhere for skylake x. As for threadripper latency all CCX are connected to each other (i believe), so apart from increased distance (does that affect latency?) I think it will be roughly the same. The big unknown is how quad channel RAM will play into this.

 

[N19h7m4r3]

I think someone has done it somewhere for skylake x. As for threadripper latency all CCX are connected to each other (i believe), so apart from increased distance (does that affect latency?) I think it will be roughly the same. The big unknown is how quad channel RAM will play into this.

That's a good point! I also wonder how the IMC will cope on Threadripper. How hard will it be to get RAM to that Sweetspot of 3200Mhz on it. Specially at quad channel.

 

[humbug]

Don't be surprised if Threadripper has Latencies all over the place, as N19h7m4r3 explained the intercore latency is very good and there is no reason why that should be any different on Threadripper, while iner-CCX latency is high.....

There is one added aspect to Threadripper, it has multiple dies, so there will also be an interdie latency which would probably be even higher than iner-CCX latency.

On the + side Ryzen has proven its self to be very power efficient and the multi-threaded productivity performance is also very good, AMD SMT actually appears to work better than Intel's.
So the 16 core Threadripper should have far better performance than the 7900X in Multithreaded performance, but the low threaded performance, particularity those cross CCX and die latency sensitive performances are still going to be behind Intel, despite Intel taking a hit on that too with this architecture.

 

[N19h7m4r3]

Don't be surprised if Threadripper has Latencies all over the place, as N19h7m4r3 explained the intercore latency is very good and there is no reason why that should be any different on Threadripper, while iner-CCX latency is high.....

There is one added aspect to Threadripper, it has multiple dies, so there will also be an interdie latency which would probably be even higher than iner-CCX latency.

On the + side Ryzen has proven its self to be very power efficient and the multi-threaded productivity performance is also very good, AMD SMT actually appears to work better than Intel's.
So the 16 core Threadripper should have far better performance than the 7900X in Multithreaded performance, but the low threaded performance, particularity those cross CCX and die latency sensitive performances are still going to be behind Intel, despite Intel taking a hit on that too with this architecture.

I noticed something interesting. Epyc's Infinity Fabric runs at 42GB/s for each link. From what I remember Ryzen runs at 34GB/s, so that is a bit faster stock vs stock.

https://arstechnica.com/information...mds-zen-steps-into-the-server-room-with-epyc/

Within the processor, each chip has three IF links, one to each of the other three chips. Each link runs at up to 42GB/s in each direction.

It's possible Threadripper uses the same I.F bandwidth as Epyc, which could result in lower CCX latency compared to Ryzen.

 

[zornyan]

I hadn't considered RAM, or how much of a premium OCUK charges for dellidded stuff. Wow i was way off the mark



Thats a good point. I still don't think they will be high priority though considering the target audience for Threadripper. So i still think it will be quite low of a chance to see any on launch day. More likely within the first 2 months.

I get that delidded stuff needs a markup, obviously the rarer the bin (5.2ghz 7700k or say a 4.2ghz 1800x) having very low % chances mean they have to go through a lot of chips to find those golden ones.

but ok the flip side, that is an insane markup, it's £470 for a 5.2ghz delidded 7700k from other sources, even with import taxes (if you got hit by them) it's worst case £540ish.

that's nearly £400 over what others are charging, when you would expect a larger company like OCUK to be more competitive due to larger volume.

 

[RSR]

Well that review isn't very glowing! It looks like my upgrade from X99 is going to be TR unless I have missed something on the X299. The other option I have is keep the X99 platform and grab a 6900K or 6950K.

 

[Rroff]

Well that review isn't very glowing! It looks like my upgrade from X99 is going to be TR unless I have missed something on the X299. The other option I have is keep the X99 platform and grab a 6900K or 6950K.

6950X certainly isn't looking like a terrible option in terms of keeping a system at the moment. For mixed gaming and desktop use the only one I'd really even consider buying at the moment is the 7820X as it looks like it will also overclock somewhat reasonably albeit with a lot higher power and heat compared to stock.

 

[RSR]

6950X certainly isn't looking like a terrible option in terms of keeping a system at the moment. For mixed gaming and desktop use the only one I'd really even consider buying at the moment is the 7820X as it looks like it will also overclock somewhat reasonably albeit with a lot higher power and heat compared to stock.

Its the de-liding aspect which puts me off as you shouldn't need to do this for a expensive CPU. My reason for the more cores are to have a single box for streaming and messing around with media content and I am finding the 6850K struggles. I could add a second box but I want a all in one solution really.