AMD THREADRIPPER VS INTEL SKYLAKE X

[zornyan]

This whole platform is a joke, overpriced, over heating, VRM issues, AMD got crucified when they released Ryzen and the bios was not mature for memory, but Intel... oh they get a golden pass because its Intel.. its laughable at best.

Even at stock these chips look woeful, you have to remember stock bios usually puts more volts through a CPU than required, these chips are going to be thermally challenged from the get go, so should people buying them for Workstations have to open up the Workstation and change the cooler etc just to have them usuable?

Last i checked, the Dell Precision Workstations we buy all come with stock Intel coolers... cant see that happening on these chips, you'd have all sorts of returns and complaints.

The best part is, Intel will void your warranty if you overclock or delid these CPU's, and lets face it, delidding is probably going to be the only way to truly deal with the heat issues, cant see many companies wanting AIO based workstations in their business places.

I still maintain, if this had been Ryzen, while people would have been whooping with joy at the fact they could clock high, people would have crucified AMD for the thermals and costs etc... its sad that people are willing to put up with this type of junk from someone who has been drip feeding them minor upgrades for so long.

just a side note, but amd also void your warranty if you overclock too, also Nvidia are the same.

no company would warranty damage caused from overclocking its in all of their terms and conditions.

the reality is none of these companies check, I've sent Intel cpus back for RMA even when we pumped 1.8v through a sandy bridge just to see what it would take to kill it, they still accepted the return.

 

[chroniclard]

Is Threadripper even a valid comparison for these chips? 1800X is a closer comparison.

 

[smogsy]

Yes, in exchange for top-rated performance, you have to either suffer with high temperatures and possible throttling and/or lower clocks, or you have to have an expensive cooling setup, or you have to give up the warranty on the chip. All of this on top of high prices and a confusing ecosystem. I do wonder what the temperatures are like at stock using the stock cooler though, I can't imagine they are very good, especially when boost kicks in.

Meanwhile AMD's stock coolers allow reasonable overclocks of their non-X (soldered) chips out of the box, despite the obvious negative that they won't clock much further with a custom cooler. There appear to be a lot of similarities between what's happening now and what happened in the early 2000s. If AMD can improve IPC and/or clock speeds decently with Zen+ then Intel are in trouble because everything we've seen over the last few years suggests they're out of ideas besides "moar MHz". Hell, switching solder to TIM was a step backwards and is symbolic of their arrogance and I think they really do take their customers for granted (more businesses and OEMs than enthusiasts, who will still buy in droves for "the best").

I think Threadripper will be a real wake-up call for them, but Intel do have many advantanges still, such as brand recognition and existing contracts. They also have time on their side - it'll take a couple of years for important software to "catch up" to support Ryzen as an architecture, so in that time they could really shake things up if they wanted to.

regarding the software the big players are already ready

if you watched the EPYC presentation.
Microsoft Azure/Redrat/Samsung/Hp/DELL - all have been working with AMD on EPYC for over a year & HP/DELL since the start 5 years partnership.

Microsoft Azure/Redrat already have their Software ready to release for Launch of EPYC, which in turn Is ThreadRipper.

So the OS software will be Their. It will be down to LVL1 Software guys to do their thing, the likes of Adobe/Unreal Engine/soildworks/Maya and so on.

but the big players have already done their job

 

[smogsy]

just a side note, but amd also void your warranty if you overclock too, also Nvidia are the same.

no company would warranty damage caused from overclocking its in all of their terms and conditions.

the reality is none of these companies check, I've sent Intel cpus back for RMA even when we pumped 1.8v through a sandy bridge just to see what it would take to kill it, they still accepted the return.

true, they don't check, but technically Intel do not support Overclocking either, they just dont state it clearly where as AMD does.
https://click.intel.com/tuningplan/

What is the Performance Tuning Protection Plan? ?
The Performance Tuning Protection Plan is an additional plan that a customer can purchase to cover processor failures caused by operating the eligible processor outside of Intel’s published specifications.

Why is Intel offering the Performance Tuning Protection Plan?
Intel has received feedback from customers who want to implement overclocking on eligible processors, that because of the lack of any replacement coverage for the eligible processors, the risk of overclocking is too great. We understand this position, and while we cannot endorse overclocking, we want to provide a limited remedy if issues arise as a result of their decision to enable overclocking. The limited remedy consists of a replacement processor (i.e., replacing the processor damaged solely as a result of the overclocking).

Is Threadripper even a valid comparison for these chips? 1800X is a closer comparison.

Due to the PCI-E lanes Threadripper 8-16 Cores is = X299 platform

 

[DragonQ]

just a side note, but amd also void your warranty if you overclock too, also Nvidia are the same.

no company would warranty damage caused from overclocking its in all of their terms and conditions.

the reality is none of these companies check, I've sent Intel cpus back for RMA even when we pumped 1.8v through a sandy bridge just to see what it would take to kill it, they still accepted the return.

All true but you missed the part about losing warranty for delidding. Whether they'd actually bother to check that when receiving an RMAd CPU, I don't know.

regarding the software the big players are already ready

if you watched the EPYC presentation.
Microsoft Azure/Redrat/Samsung/Hp/DELL - all have been working with AMD on EPYC for over a year & HP/DELL since the start 5 years partnership.

Microsoft Azure/Redrat already have their Software ready to release for Launch of EPYC, which in turn Is ThreadRipper.

So the OS software will be Their. It will be down to LVL1 Software guys to do their thing, the likes of Adobe/Unreal Engine/soildworks/Maya and so on.

but the big players have already done their job

That's good news but as you say, even if the foundations are there, software needs to adapt. Things like compilers and JIT engines need optimisation, and also remember businesses don't upgrade every year. I'm sure I'm not the only one sat in front of a Core 2 Duo box and using Office 2010.

Basically it will take time for the hardware-software-upgrade cycle to come around and fall in AMD's favour, which to Intel's advantage. For how long, we'll have to see.

 

[smogsy]

All true but you missed the part about losing warranty for delidding. Whether they'd actually bother to check that when receiving an RMAd CPU, I don't know.


That's good news but as you say, even if the foundations are there, software needs to adapt. Things like compilers and JIT engines need optimisation, and also remember businesses don't upgrade every year. I'm sure I'm not the only one sat in front of a Core 2 Duo box and using Office 2010.

Basically it will take time for the hardware-software-upgrade cycle to come around and fall in AMD's favour, which to Intel's advantage. For how long, we'll have to see.

for a basis

My Work Manchine
Xeon E5-1620 @ 3.60
16GB RAM
HDD
but Office 2013!
crap windows build that uses 4GB idle...

 

[zornyan]

true, they don't check, but technically Intel do not support Overclocking either, they just dont state it clearly where as AMD does.
https://click.intel.com/tuningplan/

What is the Performance Tuning Protection Plan? ?
The Performance Tuning Protection Plan is an additional plan that a customer can purchase to cover processor failures caused by operating the eligible processor outside of Intel’s published specifications.

Why is Intel offering the Performance Tuning Protection Plan?
Intel has received feedback from customers who want to implement overclocking on eligible processors, that because of the lack of any replacement coverage for the eligible processors, the risk of overclocking is too great. We understand this position, and while we cannot endorse overclocking, we want to provide a limited remedy if issues arise as a result of their decision to enable overclocking. The limited remedy consists of a replacement processor (i.e., replacing the processor damaged solely as a result of the overclocking).



Due to the PCI-E lanes Threadripper 8-16 Cores is = X299 platform

yeah that's what i said, basically all the companies nvidia/amd/Intel all good warranties when you overclock, hence why they all have disclaimers about overclocking and potential damage it can cause, and that your warranty is void doing so.

obviously delidding is another matter, but I have also RMA'd a delidded chip fine, but since it was a company that did it, it looked like stock so they probably don't check.

fwiw the overclocking insurance is damm handy, I think amd/Nvidia should offer it too, mostly because it's actually a free insurance claim if something goes wrong.

I've used the service once, and when I did I just contact customer support, gave them my protection plan number and the numbers off the top of the cpu, had a new one at my door about 3-4 days later (was a 4770k iirc)

I buy it on most of my cpus now, because it's just a hassle free replacement if I need one

 

[chroniclard]

Due to the PCI-E lanes Threadripper 8-16 Cores is = X299 platform

Ah, thanks.

 

[SiDeards73]

Just checked our Dell Portal for Precision specs, still offering Xeons with Nvidia 1080 GPU's which i lol'd hard at, but now they are also offering AMD Firepro cards as well, i shot an email to our guy who deals with Dell and asked if we can have more range of Firepro cards and also if they will be listing Zen CPU's for builds as a choice, im fairly certain once Threadripper is released they will be a valid option for our Workstations, hoping that we get some Ryzen based laptops soon as well.

 

[oweneades]

Is Threadripper even a valid comparison for these chips? 1800X is a closer comparison.

Yes as TR is AMD's HEDT platform.

Ryzen is the mainstream platform.

 

[DragonQ]

for a basis

My Work Manchine
Xeon E5-1620 @ 3.60
16GB RAM
HDD
but Office 2013!
crap windows build that uses 4GB idle...

I have an SSD but only because the HDD I was given on my first day with the company died within 5 minutes. They only had spare SSDs, which at the time were typically reserved for laptops.

 

[Rroff]

Hmm AMD also claiming its optimised for gaming use as well - gonna be interesting to see real benchmarks to see if it lives upto that or suffers due to things like core latency.

 

[Doobedoo]

Hmm AMD also claiming its optimised for gaming use as well - gonna be interesting to see real benchmarks to see if it lives upto that or suffers due to things like core latency.

Do you think that quad channel will help threadripper in any way as obviously the infinity fabric is tied to it? Or does it have more to do with frequency rather than bandwidth?

 

[Rroff]

Hard to say really without benchmarks - the implementation is a little different to how it is done with Intel's older quad channel CPUs like the 4802K I use where the data suggests only minimal effect on gaming uses.

 

[Doobedoo]

I wouldn't have thought gaming would be a top priority but it'll be interesting never the less.

More important is the rumored $850 price tag which will please those buying them whilst also rumored to be very profitable for Amd.

 

[jabbz]

Looks like Ghz of new silicon CPUs have hit a brick wall. Have had quad core for about 10 yrs and just made the move 6 core last year. It seems Moores law is going to continue by increasing core count from now on the way these double digit core CPU are being announced.
Yes some games are still single core frequency dependent but I think the law of diminishing return applies here and there is little point getting a faster CPU/platform for games if yours is fairly recent already. The latest and greatest graphic card is going to give you a bigger boost.
I think from now on, if you are an enthusiast after a cpu/mb upgrade, it will be more cores you'll be wanting.

Yes The 5ghz mark has been hit by the 3rd gen intels and some even 5.2ghz and every new gen they say better overclocking. Like they tell us the 7700k can overclock to around 5ghz so its better than the old 6700k, even though that could hit the same speed. The only thing that has changed is the number on the lid and a little bit more onboard gpu power. They seem to factory overclock the same crap and re sell it to make it look like they are getting faster. The only thing that has changed is you are closer from stock to the max overclock every time its a new gen cpu. I saw a 3770k OC to more than 1ghz over stock and more. You get a 6700k or a 7700k to oc 1ghz or more over stock and its not as easy. You get less headroom each time they release a new cpu, this tells me they are running out of single core speed.

 

[jabbz]

I think core optimizing is the only way foward now, and that helps AMD keep up in the race. This is good for us the buyer

 

[wonkytrout]

Take a lot to convince me AMD I want me some Coffee.

 

[N19h7m4r3]

So under a custom 360mm rad the CPU will reach 4.7Ghz, and in AIDA64 (Without FPU enabled) will hit 72 degrees.

I'm surprised he didn't test with FPU on, didn't do any Handbrake tests, or even Prime95; so I suspect with AVX workloads it'll hit the 90's again; even with that cooling.

 

[Rroff]

I wouldn't have thought gaming would be a top priority but it'll be interesting never the less.

More important is the rumored $850 price tag which will please those buying them whilst also rumored to be very profitable for Amd.

A good number of people are going to be looking to these for gaming and or mixed higher end desktop use with a bit of gaming purposes.