Soldato
£539-599 is the price point from OEM/Retail 12900K, so as I said in another post, the 5900X-3dvcache need only come in at £599 or less to be better value if the performance is better or on par.
-
Competitor rules
Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.
AMD to unveil Zen 4 CPUs at CES 2022
- Thread starter Cromulent
- Start date
- Status
£539-599 is the price point from OEM/Retail 12900K, so as I said in another post, the 5900X-3dvcache need only come in at £599 or less to be better value if the performance is better or on par.
Soldato
Honestly they need to come out at least no more than the RRP of their non 3D cache counterparts. So at most £510 for them to be viable considering considering 5900x can be had for £440 just fine and the 12700k is only £340 and honeslty what I would be picking out two.
Considering you could soon get a mobo for £100 and so mobo and CPU that outperforms the current 5900x by around 15% and at worst match the 3Dcache 5900x for what would then £70 cheaper even at the £510 price point assuming you are already on AM4 board.
If not there literally zero reason to go for an AMD setup at current price/performance honestly.
Last edited:
Zen 3D needs to be as fast as the tech allows and priced so AMD can make a sustainable profit. It’s then down to the individual to decide if that performance is worth the price. How close AMD come to those goals will be measured in market share.
Well that a separate production shortage issue that comes at the cost of market share. Something I think Intel will capitalise on and AMD have seemed to have positioned themselves to respond too. Although I think Intel will make a very aggressive entry into the GPU market.
Soldato
Why does it have to be no more than £510 if the Intel equivalent is more, for what could be a lot less performance? I'm not sure where you've got a 15% average uplift from vs a 5900x either, that is just fantasy, maybe in one app or a couple of games as an outlier.
As for the 12700K, and the soon to be had cheap motherboards - why does this differ for AMD, is there something wrong with B550 and a 5800x that could end up costing £280? If the 'new' 5800X-vcache is £399 but faster why would you get the 12700K, you could ask the same right? You'll be on DDR4 either way.
Caporegime
IMO AMD should "glue" another 8 cores on to the 5950X as well as the 3D Cache.
Make the 8 core without 3D cache the Ryzen 5, salvage for those that didn't take the stacking.
So
6600X: 8 core 16 thread. (32MB L3)
6800X: 12 core 24 thread, 1X 3D cache (96MB total L3)
6900X: 16 core 32 thread, 1X 3D cache (128MB total L3)
6950X: 24 core 48 thread, 1X 3D cache (160MB total L3)
Make the 8 core without 3D cache the Ryzen 5, salvage for those that didn't take the stacking.
So
6600X: 8 core 16 thread. (32MB L3)
6800X: 12 core 24 thread, 1X 3D cache (96MB total L3)
6900X: 16 core 32 thread, 1X 3D cache (128MB total L3)
6950X: 24 core 48 thread, 1X 3D cache (160MB total L3)
Last edited:
Soldato
That's fine but that is where I see the market and the price to performance needing to be otherwise its a dud and doesn't add anything unless you are possibly on a ryzen 2000 or 3000 CPU currently.
Soldato
The 5900x is competitor to the 12700k in my view though, not the 5800x. Nothing wrong with the b550 in fact I have one with my 5950x and it spot on but point is the x670 boards are too expensive.
With that though £280 for a B550 and 5800x? The CPU alone at its lower price is around £310 so add a £100 board and you back to £410 for the AMD setup and it is further slower than the 5900x comparison (5% ish) so yeah pay less, get less is fine but a 12700k with its performance and the additional £30 I would say is worth it around thar price point.
That 15% was the average was seeing across the 5 or 6 YT videos I watched comparing the 5900x to the 12700k there were a few games which were basically same like RDR2 but others like Cyberpunk actually showed the 12700k around 20% faster than the 5900x.
I've got no action with Intel or anything, as said I've got a 5950x but just looking objectively at the prices and performance I've seen that is what I can see.
If the 5800x 3dcache is £399 amd gives a 5-10% performance uplift to the 12700k then judge for self but comparing that to a £339 12700k that is a big % chunk for the performance.
And honestly I think at most AMD 5900x will be on par, the 5800x will still be slower from the hinted figures from AMD and the known figures of the 12700k.
Last edited:
Depends on the graphics card. Nvidia don’t scale well with cores or leverage single core performance particularly efficiently.
Soldato
Okay but that's a lot of people that will be using 3070, 3080, 3090 so it doesn't make it invalid.
Also I'm a 6900xt myself but I'm not finding a lot of numbers of people showing with a 12700k and such GPU to do that comparison.
Edit: the one I habe found with a 6900xt has only done a 5800x and at 1080p still shows about 10% with Cyberpunk, days gone, hitman.
Caporegime
I don't think AMD will have any problem catching Intel's gaming performance if all they do is add the 3D Cache to existing Zen 3. They don't even need DDR5 to do it...
Its the MT performance that i'm looking at, a 5800X with 3D cache is not going to catch the 12700K in rendering and encoding, and while the 12900K is no faster than the 5950X 3D cache is not going to put it much ahead.
AMD's mindshare is very strong right now, they have stolen it from Intel, but IMO AMD cannot rest on that, they cannot allow Intel even an inch to take it back, so Zen 3D needs to be significantly faster at every tier, the 6950X needs to be 50% faster than the 12900K. Glue another 8 on it...
Its the MT performance that i'm looking at, a 5800X with 3D cache is not going to catch the 12700K in rendering and encoding, and while the 12900K is no faster than the 5950X 3D cache is not going to put it much ahead.
AMD's mindshare is very strong right now, they have stolen it from Intel, but IMO AMD cannot rest on that, they cannot allow Intel even an inch to take it back, so Zen 3D needs to be significantly faster at every tier, the 6950X needs to be 50% faster than the 12900K. Glue another 8 on it...
It makes it valid as Nvidia are dropping performance and AMD and Intel will exploit that.
If you are playing mainly Nvidia optimised games with an Nvidia card then currently you want the fastest 4-6 core CPU you can find. That Nvidia game “optimisation” That will also translate over to RDNA cards. This will change though. AMD Radeon has put Nvidia under a lot of pressure and Intel will want games optimised for 24 threads. Every game optimised for Intel or AMD will benefit both and hurt Nvidia.
Having only one 3D stacked L3 die would cause its own complications:
Only that single CCD under it has direct access to that big cache.
So performance critical threads would have to be scheduled into cores of that one chiplet.
Cache above IO die or integrated into it as L4 would be better for improving performance of code running in every core.
Unless purpose is to start moving toward differentiated cores/CCDs, if not for big.little.
I think AMD will absolutely destroy Intel over the next 5 years.
Caporegime
Destroy is a strong word, and don't be so cocksure. I have no doubt AMD will keep innovating and pushing boundaries but Intel are all too aware of AMD's resurgence and the increasing perception that they can't keep up, and they are not pushovers, its why AMD cannot rest, they have to keep pushing and pushing even if they push so far their CPU's start looking like GPU's with hundreds of cores, go there and beyond to demoralise Intel, make them feel like trying to keep up is not only futile but impossible.
I want to be able to play Crysis one on of their CPU's without any kind of a GPU at 60Hz within 3 years. a 3990X currently does it at 15 FPS.
Caporegime
Intel need to second guess everything they do, they need to feel real fear of challenging AMD for what they might do in return.
Its how Leather Jacket man Jenz thinks. That mindset brought him success.
Its how Leather Jacket man Jenz thinks. That mindset brought him success.
Caporegime
Cancelled, or delayed until Zen 4, hopefully for good reason, hopefully because after seeing ADL AMD are rethinking and there would be little headroom for HEDT over mainstream.
Im going off both companies recent execution and current technology. Marketing and villainy aside I don’t see Intel Intels roadmap offering anything close to a solution to even the current Zen.
Soldato
Ian Cutress did a video of predictions, he thinks Zen 4 will be delayed from Q3 to Q4 and Raptor Lake won't come out in 2022. Just something to talk about anyway.
- Status