AMD to unveil Zen 4 CPUs at CES 2022

humbug · 23 May 2022 at 03:10

Perfect_Chaos said:
The problem is that they are competing with Raptor Lake not Alder Lake.

Hope they are not gonna fall behind and be similar to early Zen days and have weaker ST and higher latency vs the competition.

Anyway, best to wait for actual numbers for a better idea.

The Letency with DDR4 on Alder Lake is 77ns, with DD5 its still 57ns. https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/core-i9-12900k-ddr4-versus-ddr5-performance-review,16.html

Even with my junk ram my latency is 65ns, between ADL DDR4 and DDR5, do we still think that latency matters so much or can we put that to bed now?

Also @Twinz

Does ST still matter? Not for games, the 5800X3D has ST 4.5Ghz vs 5.2Ghz for the 12900K, a 700Mhz (15%) difference on top of a 10% IPC difference and despite this the 12900K need's £450 DRR5 just to keep up with the 5800X3D in games.

CPU's are getting far more complex than just looking at traditional aspects and drawing conclusions from them.

Innovation.

Twinz · 23 May 2022 at 03:18

humbug said:
The Letency with DDR4 on Alder Lake is 77ns, with DD5 its still 57ns. https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/core-i9-12900k-ddr4-versus-ddr5-performance-review,16.html

Even with my junk ram my latency is 65ns, between ADL DDR4 and DDR5, do we still think that latency matters so much or can we put that to bed now?

Also @Twinz

Does ST still matter? Not for games, the 5800X3D has ST 4.5Ghz vs 5.2Ghz for the 12900K, a 700Mhz (15%) difference on top of a 10% IPC difference and despite this the 12900K need's £450 DRR5 just to keep up with the 5800X3D in games.

CPU's are getting far more complex than just looking at traditional aspects and drawing conclusions from them.

Innovation.

This interests me more than sales numbers.

humbug · 23 May 2022 at 03:19

Twinz said:
This interests me more than sales numbers.

Ok

Grim5 · 23 May 2022 at 07:39

X670 Specs

* Up to 24 PCIE 5.0 Lanes to GPU and Storage

* Up to 14 USB Type C 20Gbps

* WIFI 6E

* Up to 4 HDMI 2.1 and Displayport 2.0 Ports

* X670E offers best overclocking for CPU and Memory and offers most PCIE 5.0 lanes

* PCIE 5.0 Nvme storage drives coming, has 60% increase in sequential read speeds, launching with Zen4 and AM5

New boards

16 core Ryzen 7950x hits 5.53ghz while playing Ghostwire Tokyo game

* AMD says 7950x is 31% faster than 12900k in multicore workloads.
* 7950x appears to have 170w TDP, AMD says the higher TDP of the AM5 socket allows higher all core clockspeeds for Ryzen than ever before.

How AMD calculated the 15% performance improvement in single core

And finally, Zen 4 is launching this Autumn.

* Zen 4 does not use 3D cache at this stage, but L2 cache has been doubled. Outside of what AMD has said today, rumours are that 3D cache is being saved to fight against Intel's Meteor Lake in 2023

Joxeon · 23 May 2022 at 07:48

AMD is learning from nvidia by holding back the 3D Vcache versions so gamers have to double dip.

Troezar · 23 May 2022 at 07:54

Joxeon said:
AMD is learning from nvidia by holding back the 3D Vcache versions so gamers have to double dip.

Yes not great for the consumer but to compete you have to be a bit sharper then they have been in the past. Also keeps the competition guessing. That all said if you just game most of the current higher end CPU's will be fine for gaming, especially at 1440P+ resolutions.

Tythus · 23 May 2022 at 07:59

For me the biggest news is that Zen 4 will now have an integrated GPU in the IO die which I assume will be standard

Troezar · 23 May 2022 at 08:02

Tythus said:
For me the biggest news is that Zen 4 will now have an integrated GPU in the IO die which I assume will be standard

That is handy for the times your GPU goes down or are between GPU's or even office builds.

Grim5 · 23 May 2022 at 08:04

Tythus said:
For me the biggest news is that Zen 4 will now have an integrated GPU in the IO die which I assume will be standard

AMD says AM4 coolers are compatible but I have a feeling they won't be particularly good with high TDP.

The diagram shows that the I/O and GPU chip sits in the dead centre of the Zen 4 CPU and the two CPU chiplets off to the side near the edge of the die - the reason I'm concerned is because many/most cooler are designed to provide best cooling in the center of the block and not on the edges where the Zen4 CPU chiplets will be.

This won't be a problem for 65w chips etc but where you've got 150w+ these kinds of things can result in 5-20c higher temps than optimal

Tythus · 23 May 2022 at 08:08

Troezar said:
That is handy for the times your GPU goes down or are between GPU's or even office builds.

for me it's always great to have when you are debugging a build and don't have a known "good" GPU spare.

Grim5 said:
AMD says AM4 coolers are compatible but I have a feeling they won't be particularly good with high TDP.

The diagram shows that the I/O and GPU chip sits in the dead centre of the Zen 4 CPU and the two CPU chiplets off to the side near the edge of the die - the reason I'm concerned is because many/most cooler are designed to provide best cooling in the center of the block and not on the edges where the Zen4 CPU chiplets will be.

This won't be a problem for 65w chips etc but where you've got 150w+ these kinds of things can result in 5-20c higher temps than optimal

all they need to avoid is to have a bios option to either disable perm or maybe if PCIE GPU or no monitors plugged in disabled?

Perfect_Chaos · 23 May 2022 at 08:12

humbug said:
The Letency with DDR4 on Alder Lake is 77ns, with DD5 its still 57ns. https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/core-i9-12900k-ddr4-versus-ddr5-performance-review,16.html

Even with my junk ram my latency is 65ns, between ADL DDR4 and DDR5, do we still think that latency matters so much or can we put that to bed now?

Am not up to date on it, just talking about future performance and that leaked slide which turned out to be genuine.
So far it just seems ok, but not all that great. Certainly not near what leakers were saying once again.. disappointing. I think Intel has a chance here, unless they screw up somehow.

Grim5 · 23 May 2022 at 08:14

CuriousTomCat · 23 May 2022 at 08:17

Twinz said:
Counter Intel's performance or popularity?

One matters to me, the other not so much.

Both are equally important. Popularity = cashflow so they can make future gens faster and faster. We can't have amazing performance if prev gens had poor sales to pay for it.

Tythus · 23 May 2022 at 08:24

CuriousTomCat said:
Both are equally important. Popularity = cashflow so they can make future gens faster and faster. That can't happen with poor sales.

What I want is for neither Intel OR AMD to get too comfortable like Intel did for a good solid half-decade at least and for us to get practically no improvement for the whole duration.

Toasty · 23 May 2022 at 08:33

Looks like a nice platform but disappointing

15% uplift vs 5950x in ST ouch Looks like IPC gains are very small and it all the ST improvement is coming from clock speed, no wonder they didn't mention IPC like they normally do.

This looks more liken Zen 3+ on 5nm with power boosted and a good foundation platform.

RBImGuy · 23 May 2022 at 08:37

Joxeon said:
AMD is learning from nvidia by holding back the 3D Vcache versions so gamers have to double dip.

The production line is zen3 5800x3d, then to shift with a unreleased zen4x3d still btw takes months to shift the production line.
Your unfair and dont understand the context.
Wafer containment, production, transports, design and whatever else is happening etc..

but sure, blame Nvidia for how reality works

Perfect_Chaos · 23 May 2022 at 08:37

Toasty said:
This looks more liken Zen 3+ on 5nm with power boosted and a good foundation platform.

That's the advantage it would have vs going straight to Raptor Lake.

Troezar · 23 May 2022 at 08:37

Toasty said:
Looks like a nice platform but disappointing

15% uplift vs 5950x in ST ouch Looks like IPC gains are very small and it all the ST improvement is coming from clock speed, no wonder they didn't mention IPC like they normally do.

This looks more liken Zen 3+ on 5nm with power boosted and a good foundation platform.

Does make you wonder if they are holding back to play the leapfrog game each time Intel releases something.

RBImGuy · 23 May 2022 at 08:38

humbug said:
The Letency with DDR4 on Alder Lake is 77ns, with DD5 its still 57ns. https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/core-i9-12900k-ddr4-versus-ddr5-performance-review,16.html

Even with my junk ram my latency is 65ns, between ADL DDR4 and DDR5, do we still think that latency matters so much or can we put that to bed now?

Also @Twinz

Does ST still matter? Not for games, the 5800X3D has ST 4.5Ghz vs 5.2Ghz for the 12900K, a 700Mhz (15%) difference on top of a 10% IPC difference and despite this the 12900K need's £450 DRR5 just to keep up with the 5800X3D in games.

CPU's are getting far more complex than just looking at traditional aspects and drawing conclusions from them.

Innovation.

Yea, Many may buy a high end gpu and not realize their held back by cpu or ram or even a mechanical hd.

RavenXXX2 · 23 May 2022 at 08:39

5950x was already 15 % faster than the 12900k in blender. As stated ipc uplift is measly, clocks doing all the work. Mobos will be hugely expensive on LGA, as will good ddr5, could be an AMD zen failure this time around.

The fact they were so light on performance figures is not a good sign.