AMD VEGA confirmed for 2017 H1

[humbug]

Maybe - but by that time I will have had months if not a couple of years of much faster performance and be onto a new card will those on the 290X or 1070 will be increasingly having to sacrifice visual settings to keep performance steady.



While I don't go crazy with spending on tech stuff, especially these days, money largely isn't a factor versus what I need - I'd rather spend more and get what I need than spend less and end up limping along trying to justify it under the guise of value for money.

(As an aside my 780 GHZ was within +/-6% of the RX480 when I ditched it in pretty much 90+% of games out there the only exception really being Doom with Vulkan which gave the 480 a pretty big boost which isn't really seen (yet) in other games).

For instance Doom:

Spoiler

Left to right being RX480 Vulkan, RX480 Open GL, my 780 Vulkan (lol at Vulkan performance), my 780 Open GL.

So the most FPS you can get with the 780 is 66, vs 84 for the RX 480.

 

[Rroff]

So the most FPS you can get with the 780 is 66, vs 84 for the RX 480.

Last time I tried Vulkan was broken on the 780 - the framerate would adhere to V-Sync multipliers even with V-Sync off pulling performance way down - that said I don't really expect to see Kepler getting any significant gains like the GCN cards do.

The reason I posted that though is more relevant to the Open GL results - if you go by what is often said then even overclocked a 780 "shouldn't" be getting close to a 480 there - the reality is despite falling a bit flat on their face in 1-2 recent games they largely aren't as bad in the realworld. I still wouldn't recommend them these days over the other options if the choices came down to it mind but that is another story.

 

[humbug]

Last time I tried Vulkan was broken on the 780 - the framerate would adhere to V-Sync multipliers even with V-Sync off pulling performance way down - that said I don't really expect to see Kepler getting any significant gains like the GCN cards do.

The reason I posted that though is more relevant to the Open GL results - if you go by what is often said then even overclocked a 780 "shouldn't" be getting close to a 480 there - the reality is despite falling a bit flat on their face in 1-2 recent games they largely aren't as bad in the realworld. I still wouldn't recommend them these days over the other options if the choices came down to it mind but that is another story.

AMD see OpenGL as a dead API, a decade of under investment and development in it has resulted in across the board bad performance.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Anyone who bought a 290X/custom variant is now laughing, whle the likes of the GTX 980 fall behind in performance.

Not really - sure the 290X betters some of the cards that used to be a fair bit faster, but its pretty long in the tooth now - hardly going to be laughing when you are increasingly going to have to turn settings down a bit or upgrade with newer games.

(As an aside my 780 GHZ was within +/-6% of the RX480 when I ditched it in pretty much 90+% of games out there the only exception really being Doom with Vulkan which gave the 480 a pretty big boost which isn't really seen (yet) in other games).

Yup - again massive long post largely missing the point of what I've said - definitely trying to justify something to yourself.

Yep,posts deflecting now the fact your beloved GTX780 is a worse card and the R9 290 series cards are better in modern games.

Your the one who is justifying your GTX780 because you can't even admit the R9 290 series cards will last longer and be more relevant any newer games than a GTX780.

Your the one who is deflecting that these R9 290 series cards are now not even really doing that badly against even Pascal.

Your the one deflecting that someone who bought one of these cards nearly three years ago is still doing OK with them whereas people who bought the GTX780 and then a GTX970 or GTX980 have ended up in the same boat whilst spending more on their cards.

I have not seen this level of excuse making since all the FX5800/FX5900 purchasers started to see what happened to THOSE cards with games like HL2.

You can't handle the fact that someone who bought a £320 aftermarket R9 290 is going to still have a decent card even after a year. You need to justify that isn't the case you spent money on that GTX780. Since I have not bought either card,I don't need to justify anything - I am making observations from a few years of reviews and friends who owned those cards.

The GTX780 is a joke of a card.

Cost over £500 at launch. Where is at now??

At least the GTX980TI was another kettle of fish.

 

[Rroff]

AMD see OpenGL as a dead API, a decade of under investment and development in it has resulted in across the board bad performance.

True but doesn't change that if you look at the average review site's numbers in theory a 780 shouldn't get anywhere close to a 480 in Doom even in Open GL - whereas in reality whatever methodology, clocks or whatever they are utilising in testing isn't reflective of the performance the vast majority of 780 owners will actually be seeing.

Yep,posts deflecting now the fact your beloved GTX780 is a worse card and the R9 290 series cards are better in modern games.

Your the one who is justifying your GTX780 because you can't even admit the R9 290 series cards will last longer and be more relevant any newer games than a GTX780.

I upgraded to a 1070 the 780 is old news - I've made multiple posts recently on the subject that usually conclude with something like (directly quoted from another post I made) "However it gets a bit more murky again if you throw some of the most recent games into the equation where the AMD 290s retain strong performance.", etc. so I have no idea where you are coming up with that idea. I've even posted twice in the last hour that I wouldn't recommend a 780 over a 290. Doesn't change the fact that if you are looking to get decent results out of increasingly newer games you aren't going to be talking about either of those cards.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I upgraded to a 1070 the 780 is old news - I've made multiple posts recently on the subject that usually conclude with something like (directly quoted from another post I made) "However it gets a bit more murky again if you throw some of the most recent games into the equation where the AMD 290s retain strong performance.", etc. so I have no idea where you are coming up with that idea. I've even posted twice in the last hour that I wouldn't recommend a 780 over a 290. Doesn't change the fact that if you are looking to get decent results out of increasingly newer games you aren't going to be talking about either of those cards.

Because in the new games an R9 290/R9 290X will increasingly thrash a GTX780??

Most of the newer games will run fine on a RX470/RX480 4GB/8GB or a GTX1060 6GB. An aftermaket R9 290/R9 290X is not massively different or massively slower.

What do you think an R9 390/390X is?? Its a faster R9 290/290X with more VRAM and slightly higher clocked VRAM.

Those R9 290 series cards will be fine for the next year or a bit longer. The sub £300 range is not really massively faster.

Until we hit a bigger performance bump under £300,most devs will target GTX970 or R9 290 level performance anyway.

The GTX780 lacks Vulkan performance,has worse DX12 performance and lacks VRAM.

You cannot equate the two cards together anymore.

If you had a GTX780 you will have more need to upgrade anyway. So that is what another 18 months to two years to an R9 290 then??

People are laughing all the way to the bank,because for an average gamer the R9 290 series cards have had a very long lifespan.

Plus having the same GCN gen as both the consoles,and the PS4 PRO being the same basic uarch anyway,that means lots of games will be developed for GCN1.1/GCN1.2 anyway.

Plus if people did a bit of mining on the side,they probably would have paid off the card now anyway.

AMD might have made some utterly disappointing cards,but the R9 290 series have proved their worth. Not even Fiji could really do enough!

If AMD had not done another subpar launch,the cards would have been considered in another way. They have themselves to blame for that one.

Like I said if Vega is not polished like the GTX1080 FE I am borrowing for a while,it does not matter even if it were GTX1080 speed for under £400.

Nvidia do polished launches and AMD has forgotten in some ways how to do that and leaves Nvidia chances.

 

[humbug]

True but doesn't change that if you look at the average review site's numbers in theory a 780 shouldn't get anywhere close to a 480 in Doom even in Open GL - whereas in reality whatever methodology, clocks or whatever they are utilising in testing isn't reflective of the performance the vast majority of 780 owners will actually be seeing.

I don't quite know what you are saying with this.

I think the RX 480 is bad with OpenGL as all AMD cards have been, so bad that i do expect the GTX 780 to have much better performance with said API.

I don't know in what context you feel the 780 in testing is not representative of what performance owners are seeing?

There are ways in which i agree with that statement but such ways could be attributed to all GPU's.

 

[Rroff]

I don't quite know what you are saying with this.

I think the RX 480 is bad with OpenGL as all AMD cards have been, so bad that i do expect the GTX 780 to have much better performance with said API.

I don't know in what context you feel the 780 in testing is not representative of what performance owners are seeing?

There are ways in which i agree with that statement but such ways could be attributed to all GPU's.

What I'm saying is - I don't deny that the GCN cards have increasingly overtaken Kepler in relevancy - but I disagree in the level of how much that is compared to what is often banded about and even seen on many review sites - if you went by that you'd get the impression the 780 now performed similar to the 7970 in many games whereas in reality that isn't what 780 owners will be seeing - because believe me if I'd been seeing that kind of performance 1440p gaming wouldn't have been feasible (without a big hit to rendering quality) and I'd have upgraded months and months before I did.

Because in the new games an R9 290/R9 290X will increasingly thrash a GTX780??

Most of the newer games will run fine on a RX470/RX480 4GB/8GB or a GTX1060 6GB. An aftermaket R9 290/R9 290X is not massively different or massively slower.

What do you think an R9 390/390X is?? Its a faster R9 290/290X with more VRAM and slightly higher clocked VRAM.

Those R9 290 series cards will be fine for the next year or a bit longer. The sub £300 range is not really massively faster.

Until we hit a bigger performance bump under £300,most devs will target GTX970 or R9 290 level performance anyway.

The GTX780 lacks Vulkan performance,has worse DX12 performance and lacks VRAM.

You cannot equate the two cards together anymore.

If you had a GTX780 you will have more need to upgrade anyway. So that is what another 18 months to two years to an R9 290 then??

People are laughing all the way to the bank,because for an average gamer the R9 290 series cards have had a very long lifespan.

Plus having the same GCN gen as both the consoles,and the PS4 PRO being the same basic uarch anyway,that means lots of games will be developed for GCN1.1/GCN1.2 anyway.

Plus if people did a bit of mining on the side,they probably would have paid off the card now anyway.

AMD might have made some utterly disappointing cards,but the R9 290 series have proved their worth. Not even Fiji could really do enough!

If AMD had not done another subpar launch,the cards would have been considered in another way. They have themselves to blame for that one.

Like I said if Vega is not polished like the GTX1080 FE I am borrowing for a while,it does not matter even if it were GTX1080 speed for under £400.

Nvidia do polished launches and AMD has forgotten in some ways how to do that and leaves Nvidia chances.

LOL just buy a 1070/1080 already.

 

[humbug]

What I'm saying is - I don't deny that the GCN cards have increasingly overtaken Kepler in relevancy - but I disagree in the level of how much that is compared to what is often banded about and even seen on many review sites - if you went by that you'd get the impression the 780 now performed similar to the 7970 in many games whereas in reality that isn't what 780 owners will be seeing - because believe me if I'd been seeing that kind of performance 1440p gaming wouldn't have been feasible (without a big hit to rendering quality) and I'd have upgraded months and months before I did.

What do you think could be the cause of this?

Normally i would say the GPU has not and is not being retested along with newer GPU's so those performance charts are not representative of said GPU on newer drivers, IE the performance people are actually getting.

Having said that the 7970 is the same era card, a card that as you pointed out is rapidly gaining performance on the GTX 780 in reviews, a card which in its heyday was some 30% faster.

That would suggest both are being retested.

Or the 7970 is while the GTX 780 isn't, why would they do that?

 

[Doom112]

Because in the new games an R9 290/R9 290X will increasingly thrash a GTX780??

Most of the newer games will run fine on a RX470/RX480 4GB/8GB or a GTX1060 6GB. An aftermaket R9 290/R9 290X is not massively different or massively slower.

What do you think an R9 390/390X is?? Its a faster R9 290/290X with more VRAM and slightly higher clocked VRAM.

Those R9 290 series cards will be fine for the next year or a bit longer. The sub £300 range is not really massively faster.

Until we hit a bigger performance bump under £300,most devs will target GTX970 or R9 290 level performance anyway.

The GTX780 lacks Vulkan performance,has worse DX12 performance and lacks VRAM.

You cannot equate the two cards together anymore.

If you had a GTX780 you will have more need to upgrade anyway. So that is what another 18 months to two years to an R9 290 then??

People are laughing all the way to the bank,because for an average gamer the R9 290 series cards have had a very long lifespan.

Plus having the same GCN gen as both the consoles,and the PS4 PRO being the same basic uarch anyway,that means lots of games will be developed for GCN1.1/GCN1.2 anyway.

Plus if people did a bit of mining on the side,they probably would have paid off the card now anyway.

AMD might have made some utterly disappointing cards,but the R9 290 series have proved their worth. Not even Fiji could really do enough!

If AMD had not done another subpar launch,the cards would have been considered in another way. They have themselves to blame for that one.

Like I said if Vega is not polished like the GTX1080 FE I am borrowing for a while,it does not matter even if it were GTX1080 speed for under £400.

Nvidia do polished launches and AMD has forgotten in some ways how to do that and leaves Nvidia chances.

I know you have some personal problem with Nvidia but please do some research up to date before posting baseless assumptions.

GTX 780 Open GL vs Vulkan Doom

Open GL

Spoiler

Vulkan

Spoiler

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/com...h_vulkan_on_an_older/?st=ivzg62ff&sh=ba10656c

 

[Rroff]

Haven't tried 1.0.26 version - cba to put the 780 back in just to test that though heh.

 

[humbug]

I know you have some personal problem with Nvidia but please do some research up to date before posting baseless assumptions.

GTX 780 Open GL vs Vulkan Doom

Open GL

Spoiler

Vulkan

Spoiler

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/com...h_vulkan_on_an_older/?st=ivzg62ff&sh=ba10656c

Can you not see a troll post when it smacks you in the face?

Do you even have doom and anything like a GTX 780, do you get 150 FPS @ 1440P on Ultra a settings in that spot, cuz i don't, nothing like that.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

LOL just buy a 1070/1080 already since I am in love with my GTX780 and want to make up some conspiracy that all sites are not making the GTX780 faster than it is since the review world hates Nvidia.

I know you have some personal problem with AMD but please do some research up to date before posting baseless assumptions which most review sites agree with since some I want to make conspiracy that all sites are not making the GTX780 faster than it is since the review world hates Nvidia .

What unfortunately you don't get into your minds,is kind of know one or two of those reviewers and how they test things - they have no reason to make up crap which both of you are spinning. Where do you think I got this GTX1080 I am trying out from?? So spin away with your magical GTX780 cards - this is why you all are still using them now,right??

Lol,so now its a problem with Nvidia which shows how much you don't even have any argument anymore - you are both desperately have purchase justification of a card you bought don't even use anymore - none of the review sites agree with you since you are just lying now.

LMAO,so basically you are worried about purchase justification,you are both in an AMD thread trying trying to justify your own GTX780 cards especially in a thread about Vega.

Hilarious,since my last two cards have been Nvidia(mini-ITX rigs you see). Yes,I hate Nvidia sooooo much I bought them for two generations.

Criticise one product= Oh! Noes! Hate brand.

Say anything good about one AMD card= Oh! Noes! Hate Nvidia.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Can you not see a troll post when it smacks you in the face?

Do you even have doom and anything like a GTX 780, do you get 150 FPS @ 1440P on Ultra a settings in that spot, cuz i don't, nothing like that.

It isn't both him and his mate are purchase justifying their GTX780 cards in a Vega thread,and now making it out that the review sites are having some conspiracy between all of them to undersell the poor GTX780 and oversell the R9 290 series.

Wow,AMD has such awesome leet marketing skills they are forcing all the review sites to that.

What can poor Nvidia do??

Both of them know very well,the 3GB limit itself will gimp the GTX780 anyway - they don't want to admit the R9 290 will last longer,since it reflects on their own purchase of the GTX780.

Maybe if they had a R9 290 it might have lasted them a tad,longer,thats why. It makes them feel better about their new puchase as being justified.

I think one of them was saying how great the FX5800 or FX5900 was or something a while back and how rubbish the 9700 PRO was so should have just ignored them.

 

[Griffildur]

I am confused, why are you people arguing about a GTX 780 in a Vega thread?

 

[Kaapstad]

Both of them know very well,the 3GB limit itself will gimp the GTX780 anyway.

Lack of VRAM has become a very serious problem these days for older cards.

I like getting GTX 690s out occasionally as they are still some of the fastest cards you can get for reading emails and browsing forums.

 

[Rroff]

Wow you really have gone off the deep end.

RE review sites and knowing what they are doing... throw your mind back to who was banging on about frametimes and the representation of minimum framerates and how so many benchmark sites were getting it wrong... LONG before the review sites updated their methodologies

I am confused, why are you people arguing about a GTX 780 in a Vega thread?

Dunno - I just said it doesn't matter much if its a 780 or a 290 you are going to have to increasingly sacrifice quality settings with the latest games and he kind of imploded and ranting on an on about aspects of the 780 I've not even mentioned.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I am confused, why are you people arguing about a GTX 780 in a Vega thread?

Lack of VRAM has become a very serious problem these days for older cards.

I like getting GTX 690s out occasionally as they are still some of the fastest cards you can get for reading emails and browsing forums.

Apparently they went off on one since one or two of us mentioned the R9 290 cards have had decently longevity and apparently we have been misled by all those evil review sites,which gimped the GTX780 on purpose and made the R9 290 reference cards 10x better or something(yes the ones with a rubbish cooler which kind of throttles).

It seems a GTX780=RX480=R9 290(or something to that level) since sites are kind of lying about how good the GTX780 really is.

So,I take its an evil conspiracy that AMD PR has started apparently.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Wow you really have gone off the deep end.

RE review sites and knowing what they are doing... throw your mind back to who was banging on about frametimes and the representation of minimum framerates and how so many benchmark sites were getting it wrong... LONG before the review sites updated their methodologies

Meh,I predicted the problems with Boost 1.0 long before anyone here even fathomed out what would happen,because I had a clue about how test rigs were set up and what they tended to test and nobody believed me. Some of those reviewers did notice it whilst they did their initial tests,and did implement changes. I believe when I said it here,the response probably was because I hate Nvidia,right??

Or was it I hated the cards.

When it came to frametimes,certain sites did already start looking at things differently like TR or HardOCP with subjective testing.

Plus plenty of us know that Nvidia went around to various review sites to help them implement aspects of FCAT - the HardOCP guy basically is on record saying they didn't want to get involved,and I believe there were some hints too from one of the chaps over on AT.

Dunno - I just said it doesn't matter much if its a 780 or a 290 you are going to have to increasingly sacrifice quality settings with the latest games and he kind of imploded and ranting on an on about aspects of the 780 I've not even mentioned.

Your the one who is ranting about how the GTX780 and R9 290 are more or less equal,so ergo the GTX780 has issues,so instantly you make sure you twist it to mean the R9 290 has equal issues.

Sorry,but even you admitted the 3GB was an issue,and so many of those sites show it with the GTX1060 3GB having issues in games the 4GB+ cards didn't have.

So,that means by extension,the GTX780 3GB will have worse issues than a R9 290. Not the same - its a false equivalence. The R9 290 series will outlive the GTX780 series.

Just like the 9700/9800 PRO outlived the FX5800/FX5900 and the 6800 Ultra outlived the X850XT. You seem to have an issue with that,which is strange for a card you don't even want to use anymore.

 

[Kaapstad]

Apparently they went off on one since one or two of us mentioned the R9 290 cards have had decently longevity and apparently we have been misled by all those evil review sites,which gimped the GTX780 on purpose and made the R9 290 reference cards 10x better or something(yes the ones with a rubbish cooler).

It seems a GTX780=RX480=R9 290(or something to that level) since sites are kind of lying about how good the GTX780 really is.

So,I take its an evil conspiracy that AMD PR has started apparently.

I don't think the GTX780 has suddenly become slower or a bad card. What has changed is how people are using their cards.

These days there are a lot more people using higher resolution monitors and also there are a lot of new games that hog memory that have come over from consoles. Both of these things play more to the Hawaii cards strengths.