If you look at the typical hardware specs on Steam, very few gamers have the hardware to break 60 fps in anything vaguely recent. Enthusiasts it's a different story, but even then, 60 fps in the latest games at 1440p or higher is not achievable without some serious hardware.
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AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.
- Thread starter AStaley
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Not sure why people take steam surveys seriously I honestly can’t remember the last time it asked me to participate in a survey and I’m sure I’m not the only one.
PC games are increasing ported from console games. This act will increase with the upcoming console generation, as they will be so powerful. In the next 5 years, probably longer, you'll not find a game that wants more than 8 cores/16 threads. Heck, I'd be surprised if you see any performance increase from 6C/12T, as games are still not well threaded.
GPU power increases over time. Today's 2080ti will be tomorrow's 3070 performance level. 2 years from now, the 4070 will be the 3080ti's performance level. Unless you replace your CPU/Motherboard every year or two, it makes sense to get the best gaming CPU you can, if you mostly game. IMO at least
Also, this forum, and others, grossly overestimate the number of consumers who'll benefit from more than 8 cores 16 threads. The vast majority aren't running VM's, aren't rendering video/projects and aren't decoding terabytes of data. The high core count CPU's are absolutely great for workstations, where the user will be actually benefiting from those cores.
That said, IMO now is a very bad time to buy into any platform, AMD or Intel. We're at the absolutely tail end of DDR4. DDR5 is coming soon, as is PCI-E V5, USB4 and other goodies. That's what I'll be upgrading to at least, hopefully AMD are within 5% of Intel's 10nm LGA 1700 Alder Lake performance for gaming, though I doubt it.
We've already seen 3 games released in the last 2 months that scale well past 8 cores and up to least 16
It doesn't change the point though, even if the majority of gamers were running 5600 XTs and 2060 Supers (which they're not), blowing past 60 FPS in the latest games with high-res monitors is not easy.
isn’t it automatic/opt out?
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The last time I did I had an athlon 64, nforce MB 768mb ram I think or there abouts lol
This is because they are not using high-res monitors, steam hardware survey shows the vast majority of people play at 1080p or less. I don't know how they survey people now, it used to be a opt-in/selection but I think its just random now.
Soldato
Steam Hardware Survey is "Opt In" and once you say Yes it then automatically sends reports back every month in the background (no user prompt) until you Opt out.
The current "majority" PC build is a 4C/8T, 1080p, GTX1060, Win10, 16GB RAM machine.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
The current "majority" PC build is a 4C/8T, 1080p, GTX1060, Win10, 16GB RAM machine.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
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Sounds like it's been collecting your specs without you knowing.
Soldato
Are we getting retail 4000 Renoir APUs or not?
Soldato
Not retail boxed on release, but they will be available in OEM tray from larger places that can't be mentioned on here (obviously). AMD are rightly targeting the much large pre-built sector first, not enthusiast/self builder. I'm going to get the 4700G asap to have a mess around with, as they look to be amazing value for money, in performance terms.
It's not achievable even with some very serious hardware in some games and that situation can only get worse. 9900K @5ghz plus 2XTitan RTX SLI can't do all ultra plus ANY MSAA nvm 4X or 8X at 4K on RDR2 afaik.
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Exactly, it's actually very difficult for even high end systems in the latest games, GPUs simply have slowed in development due to Nvidia's need to keep milking the market. CPUs are doing well compared to GPUs but either way we need MUCH more powerful GPUs not the drip feed of small incremental performance gains.
Last 10 years have just been pure stagnation for CPU and GPU compared to the decades prior. Most gains (increasing CPU cores or GPU cores) come purely from smaller processing nodes, being able to shove as many core into a die as possible. AMD's CPUs in the last couple of years have been the exception, but one that proves the rule.
The fact that we're so freaking excited about "one in a lifetime opportunity" of 15-17% IPC improvement is just depressing. We just need innovation again and we're not seeing it. I hope ARM becoming a serious desktop/workstation contender knocks some sense into Intel and AMD.
Soldato
Excited that innovation is back, not that it's 17%. And it's hardly "one in a lifetime". Zen was more than 50% over Faildozer's derivatives, Zen+ gave 3% from minor tweaks, Zen 2 on average was another 15%, Zen 3 will be another 15-20% just by changing the CCX design, early Zen 4 rumours suggest something monstrous is coming.
This is year-on-year improvements, and not intangible ones too.
And it's not just AMD either, now that Intel have been slapped silly they've woken up too. Rocket Lake is giving a chunky IPC boost, despite being backported to 14nm, Ice Lake server and HEDT should beat Zen 2's IPC, Willow Cove is rumoured to push IPC to something silly like 50% greater than Skylake, and Intel will not stagnate again once their node processes are in order.
This is not one in a lifetime, this is the return of innovation. THAT is where the excitement is.
I wish I was as hopeful as you are, I guess I've just seen Intel and AMD overpromise and underdeliver time and time again, so I've lost my enthusiasm and they've lost the benefit of the doubt. So I really don't count on rumours about "monstrous" products that are coming in 2-3 generations.
I get that Zen was a 50% improvement over Bulldozer, but it also came 6 years later. Zen 2 was the only real short term significant IPC improvement that we've seen in the last 10 years in the CPU market, and it was impressive!
If AMD continues to manage 15-20% IPC improvements every 18 months, I will be very excited again. But I need to see it happen multiple times before I can trust that it's now the new pattern, doing it just once doesn't establish a pattern.
Caporegime
52% over Excavator, Bulldozer was +78%, its an easy mistake to make, what AMD said was 40% over Excavator, not Bulldozer, as for over promising and under delivering, as i said AMD promised +40% IPC over excavator, we got +52%.
Further more AMD promised +10% performance over Zen with Zen+, that's what we got, AMD promised +15% performance over Zen+ with Zen 2, we got +20 to 30%.
AMD's IPC is now 13% higher than Intel's latest and greatest, If the Zen 3 rumours hold true AMD will enjoy a 30% higher IPC, its interesting that to some people this is not enough, while at the same time they completely ignore Intel, its like Intel don't exist, like they have been written off.
Further more AMD promised +10% performance over Zen with Zen+, that's what we got, AMD promised +15% performance over Zen+ with Zen 2, we got +20 to 30%.
AMD's IPC is now 13% higher than Intel's latest and greatest, If the Zen 3 rumours hold true AMD will enjoy a 30% higher IPC, its interesting that to some people this is not enough, while at the same time they completely ignore Intel, its like Intel don't exist, like they have been written off.
10-year improvements (including up to Zen 2) are not enough when you compare it to decades prior (or ARM which has had a 50x IPC improvement between 2010 and 2020), if AMD sustains the current levels (15-20% IPC improvement every 18 months) in the next 10 years, that's more than enough (assuming ARM progress slows down significantly which is expected). But they have to actually do it before we can credit them. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt when I see Zen 3 and Zen 4 each deliver 15-20% IPC improvements.
Intel has been hopeless, sadly. I don't mention them because while I'm sure they'll produce fantastic products at some point before the sun turns into a red giant, I've given up hope that they'll innovate anytime soon.
Caporegime
You can always go ARM for your PC if you think they are that good.
It could very well be big especially if it comes with DDR5 which can do dual channel on a single stick so a 2 dimm set up could well be quad channel.
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