AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

RBImGuy · 31 Jul 2020 at 11:13

Waiting 3 years and soon the wait is over to buy.
New mboard, new cpu (ram bought already)

sityeuropa · 31 Jul 2020 at 11:18

Buying in on the Ryzen 4000 doesn't really have an upgrade path right? Zen4 will be a complete new socket won't it?

Journey · 31 Jul 2020 at 11:26

That will depend on AMD, they've done cross socket CPUs in the past, and having a decoupled I/O die makes it very possibly if they feel there would be enough demand, and the platform was designed from the outset with it in mind.

alec · 31 Jul 2020 at 11:50

I think there is zero chance Ryzen 4000 cpu could work in next (AM5) socket.
Having decoupled IO die means it is easier for them to design AM5 cpu with essentially unchanged Zen3 die paired to a new DDR5 IO die.

5 years ago made a lucky decision to go with Skylake at launch. It was a relatively big IPC jump at the time, enough to justify moving from Sandy Bridge.
Turned out there was no upgrade path either, moving to 7700K was a sidegrade at best. Did I miss out? Would waiting for Kaby or Coffee Lake make sense at that point? No.

I feel Ryzen 4000 will be a similar milestone. Major IPC and performance advance that will stay relevant for many years.
So I don't care if there isn't an upgrade path. AM5 will bring more cores and higher capacity RAM. Meh.

Journey · 31 Jul 2020 at 12:01

alec said:
I think there is zero chance Ryzen 4000 cpu could work in next (AM5) socket.

They were talking the other way around, e.g. a Ryzen 5xxx CPU that would drop in to AM4.

BS Dave · 31 Jul 2020 at 16:03

Journey said:
They were talking the other way around, e.g. a Ryzen 5xxx CPU that would drop in to AM4.

cheeky 5nm shrink maybe...

BluesFanUK · 31 Jul 2020 at 21:15

Can't fault AMD if they do finally move on from AM4 - Intel used to force a mobo upgrade with each gen. It does make the B550 boards a gamble though, particularly for the prices they're currently going for when a cheap B450 could see us through to the big upgrades.

alec · 31 Jul 2020 at 21:19

BluesFanUK said:
Intel used to force a mobo upgrade with each gen.

4 mobo upgrades for whats essentially Skylake. Same RAM, same connectivity, almost same number of pins, definitely same cpu architecture. Z170 z270 z390 z490
AM4 even supported last of freaking excavators

HACO · 31 Jul 2020 at 22:46

BluesFanUK said:
Can't fault AMD if they do finally move on from AM4 - Intel used to force a mobo upgrade with each gen. It does make the B550 boards a gamble though, particularly for the prices they're currently going for when a cheap B450 could see us through to the big upgrades.

At some point they’re gonna have to break socket compatibility, that usually comes alongside a new DDR generation for AMD which is pretty consumer friendly.

Perfect_Chaos · 3 Aug 2020 at 01:14

Hopefully Zen 3 brings a good latency reduction, seems as if even an 8700k beats Zen 2 in gaming https://youtu.be/kdN_s1xXpG4

I think Zen 3 will be a good jump but it might only put them on par with Intel's newer chips in gaming. Looking back at the first Zen chips it seems as if the latency has always been the reason why Intel still has the advantage.. going to be interesting to see what 10nm Intel chips are like next year.

BluesFanUK · 3 Aug 2020 at 09:00

HACO said:
At some point they’re gonna have to break socket compatibility, that usually comes alongside a new DDR generation for AMD which is pretty consumer friendly.

Yep, which is why at the moment I feel it kind of makes choosing between B450/B550/x570 a bit more difficult, unless PCIe 4.0 is an absolute requirement right now.

MSI are committed to supporting Zen 3 and after that AM5 probably comes along with USB4/DDR5/PCIe 5.0 etc. Intel will be switching over so i'd imagine AMD will follow just to keep the edge.

Destination · 3 Aug 2020 at 09:30

Perfect_Chaos said:
Hopefully Zen 3 brings a good latency reduction, seems as if even an 8700k beats Zen 2 in gaming https://youtu.be/kdN_s1xXpG4

I think Zen 3 will be a good jump but it might only put them on par with Intel's newer chips in gaming. Looking back at the first Zen chips it seems as if the latency has always been the reason why Intel still has the advantage.. going to be interesting to see what 10nm Intel chips are like next year.

Do look at what you're actually seeing.
720p comparison. no one plays witcher3 at that setting, as a test it is fine, but if that is how your are judging your 'gaming' perf, when really the GFX should be the consideration in any build.
I wonder did ryan shrout make that video himself.

Perfect_Chaos · 3 Aug 2020 at 10:04

Destination said:
Do look at what you're actually seeing.
720p comparison. no one plays witcher3 at that setting, as a test it is fine, but if that is how your are judging your 'gaming' perf, when really the GFX should be the consideration in any build.
I wonder did ryan shrout make that video himself.

I realise it's not really a realistic gaming scenario if it's 720p, but it does show that AMD still have a bit of catching up to do latency wise

RBImGuy · 3 Aug 2020 at 11:44

Perfect_Chaos said:
Hopefully Zen 3 brings a good latency reduction, seems as if even an 8700k beats Zen 2 in gaming https://youtu.be/kdN_s1xXpG4

I think Zen 3 will be a good jump but it might only put them on par with Intel's newer chips in gaming. Looking back at the first Zen chips it seems as if the latency has always been the reason why Intel still has the advantage.. going to be interesting to see what 10nm Intel chips are like next year.

Intel is stuck the next 3 years.
10nm sucks for them as well 7nm.

Ryzen 4 will have single ccx 1x8 which improves latency and have higher clockspeeds and higher ipc.
since the gap isn't big with actual resolution people gaming with amd provides the go to choice for gamers as they already have shown people like to buy amd Ryzen. Gamers like to buy Ryzen due to the price/performance ratio and here is the rub as you can set up two identical machines and you be unable to say which one is Intel/Nvidia vs Ryzen/Radeon.

It seems I have to wait to Nov to upgrade my Ryzen but it be worth the wait

Calin Banc · 3 Aug 2020 at 12:23

Perfect_Chaos said:
I realise it's not really a realistic gaming scenario if it's 720p, but it does show that AMD still have a bit of catching up to do latency wise

Also has to be said that those games didn't had much ryzen optimization done to them, plus the Intel CPU is OC to 5GHz vs. 3600x stock.

plus:

So while some games, in some extreme situations may be faster on Intel, is quite irrelevant and a shift may come rather soon.

Also worth mentioning that by the difference of price between the CPUs (plus bigger cooler on Intel to actually keep it cool at that OC), you can most likely go on a 8c/16t on the AMD side, providing much better future proofing.

Dave2150 · 3 Aug 2020 at 13:55

sityeuropa said:
Buying in on the Ryzen 4000 doesn't really have an upgrade path right? Zen4 will be a complete new socket won't it?

Yeap, AM4 is a dead platform as soon as Ryzen 4000 CPU's launch. Just as Intel's LGA 1200 Z490 platform will be dead as soon as 11th Gen Rocket Lake launches.

Now is an absolutely terrible time to buy a new platform (IMO) as both next gen platforms (Socket AM5 from AMD, LGA1700 from Intel) will launch within a year and will be huge advancements in terms of IO and features. We're talking DDR5, USB4, and likely PCI-E V5, meaning it will be incredibly futureproof. AM5 especially is likely to last 3-4 new CPU generations from AMD alone, and will likely be incredible value.

BS Dave · 3 Aug 2020 at 14:03

AM4 will still have a 4950x you can put in it though, so it's not as if it's short on upgrades, plus if you already have your DDR4...and just because the socket (AM5) supports the new CPUs (3 gens down the line) doesn't mean the motherboard will.

Also top end EOL stuff always keeps it's value well, because everyone lower down the stack wants to get a cheap upgrade to it. Zen 3 will be great but if you want resale buy at least the 4800x i reckon...

Jimmy Weirdarms · 3 Aug 2020 at 14:37

Dave2150 said:
Now is an absolutely terrible time to buy (IMO) as both next gen platforms (Socket AM5 from AMD, LGA1700 from Intel) will launch next year and will be huge advancements in terms of IO and features. We're talking DDR5, USB4, and likely PCI-E V5, meaning it will be incredibly futureproof. AM5 especially is likely to last 3-4 new CPU generations from AMD alone, and will likely be incredible value.

AM5 is roadmapped for sometime in 2022, AFAICT. Putting off until then is quite a long game.

As someone who already has an x570 board though, my priorities are different anyway. I'm looking forward to what Zen3 has to offer!

Jimmy Weirdarms · 3 Aug 2020 at 14:39

BS Dave said:
and just because the socket (AM5) supports the new CPUs (3 gens down the line) doesn't mean the motherboard will.

Very true, it seems that zen3 will be compatible with 500-series chipsets and some 400-series, though maybe not all.

Dave2150 · 3 Aug 2020 at 14:42

BS Dave said:
AM4 will still have a 4950x you can put in it though, so it's not as if it's short on upgrades, plus if you already have your DDR4...and just because the socket (AM5) supports the new CPUs (3 gens down the line) doesn't mean the motherboard will.

Also top end EOL stuff always keeps it's value well, because everyone lower down the stack wants to get a cheap upgrade to it. Zen 3 will be great but if you want resale buy at least the 4800x i reckon...

AMD are extremely generous when it comes to socket longevity, so I disagree. AM5 will very likely support at least 3 generations, more like 5. AMD listened to their fanbase regarding Zen3 and the older AM4 boards after all

You got it wrong about EOL CPU's. Intel CPU's hold their value well (4770k, 4790k, 6700k, 7700k prices are insane, even second hand!). AMD CPU's do not hold their value well at all.

What was the fastest AM3+ CPU? FX8350? FX9590? They are going for £30 or less..