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AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

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pc-guy said:
what a load of non-sense. Every argument in this entire thread has been about gaming performance. No one gave a two bit care about r20 scores.

5600x is faster in all games to all zen2 skus by a significant margin. Makes it win on all metrics that matters to people who wants a 6c12t cpu.

Get real man, what kind of mentalist would buy a 6c12t for serious productivity work rendering and video encoding. You go out buy 12c or 16c parts with respective budget. 5800x is faster in MC scores than 3900x at the same price point, 8c vs 12c. 5900x is just single digit % slower than 3950x but much much cheaper than 3950x. 12c vs 16c. Values there. 5950x is faster than the previous threadripper at a fraction of the cost. It is incredible and give productivity system builders a lot of options - cheap options.

If I ever seen a load of crap, this reply has got to take the biscuit of it all.
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LOL... harsh but I agree with the fundamental underlying logic of what you wrote and the dodgy logic being used by some people.

I missed the initial launch stock so I will now be chillaxing and waiting to see what is released next year such as hopefully the 5700x. :)
 
Saw this on Twitter... not sure what to make of it
News from TW on TSMC 7N wafer customers. In Q4, AMD is set to use ~120K wafers for console SOCs, ~80K for PS5 + ~40K for SSX! This is ~80% of 7N wafers allocated to AMD in Q4. This console ramp is the main reason for lack of Zen 3 & Big Navi. [my italics]
 
Twinz said:
Zen 2 money was faster than Zen 1 money....full stop.

Not faster here but slower there...just better performance for the same money. Period.
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you know you are comparing 2 generation of CPUs...:confused:

where is your zen2 3600x and 3800x in your BEAT ALL METRIC for the same money crap...where are those CPUs? DON'T PICK YOUR FAVOURITE AND PICK YOU VALUE HERE AND THERE MAN....you own words right back at ya.
 
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Rikmeister said:
Saw this on Twitter... not sure what to make of it
News from TW on TSMC 7N wafer customers. In Q4, AMD is set to use ~120K wafers for console SOCs, ~80K for PS5 + ~40K for SSX! This is ~80% of 7N wafers allocated to AMD in Q4. This console ramp is the main reason for lack of Zen 3 & Big Navi. [my italics]
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good money there clearly.
 
FoxEye said:
What I'm expecting to see from AMD now, assuming they keep their performance lead, is +15% (ish) performance for +12% cost (each gen).

At the same price points, you'll probably get +3% or so :p And next gen the quad core will be the £300 chip :p

AMD are just as capable of pulling our trousers down as Intel or nVidia ever were.
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This. They certainly did it during the Athlon 64 era.
 
After watching some vids and reading more of both sides of the arguments, I'm leaning towards the 5600x. I'm unlikely to keep for more than 3 years before new and shiny catches my eye, definitely not looking for 5+ year stretch for gaming.5600x + b550 + 16GB 3600 seems like a nice balance.


MegaPinches said:
By the time it matters you would have moved on, same with GPU's and ray tracing stuff, by the time people can actually use RT without it hammering performance current cards be ancient. Get the 5600x if just gaming, its a beast, better than 5800x in its current state if you ask me, I wouldnt want that furnace.
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alec said:
5800X is not a furnace. More like a soldering iron.
It gets hot on a very small area.

(also when tweaked it is THE fastest gaming cpu)
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I see reports of 80C ish under load, hotter than the 5600x by far, but it doesn't seem that excessive. Reviewers have cherry picked samples? or do people mean it's hot compared to others in the range? (8 core running as hot as 12).
 
Armadillo said:
hot compared to others in the range
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definitely that
5900X and 5950X spread their power budget 105W across two chiplets. Meaning there is more area for heat transfer and also every individual core only has like 6-8W of power available, doesn't boost as high or as agressively.
5600X has a single chiplet, but only 65W power budget. So maybe 10W per core
5800X can feed all of 105W into a single tiny chiplet. And does so in Cinebench. Which is 13W per core. Which allows it to boost to 4.6-4.7 in full core loads. No wonder it gets hot.

But again, I wouldn't worry. Ryzen are good at managing themselves.
 
pc-guy said:
you know you are comparing 2 generation of CPUs...:confused:

where is your zen2 3600x and 3800x in your BEAT ALL METRIC for the same money crap...where are those CPUs? DON'T PICK YOUR FAVOURITE AND PICK YOU VALUE HERE AND THERE MAN....you own words right back at ya.
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My 3800X was a waste of money over the 3700X due to impatience on my part. I got tired of waiting for the 3700X to get in stock and wasted extra money to finish my build.

Also, I don't think there was a direct previous-generation price point to compare to the 3800X. After $320, there was more expensive Thread-ripper stuff at higher price points.

And of course I am comparing different generations. I'm making the point that AMD's generational price/performance improved from Zen-1 to Zen-2 in all metrics, but with Zen-3, AMD improved price performance on the gaming front but fell back on multi-threaded performance.

Zen 3 is not a clean sweep on price/performance.
 
pc-guy said:
There is very likely to be a £200 part. But no idea what that will be or when. AMD wants to make a load of money before selling their golden goose for the cheap.
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They will likely make us wait a few months for 2 reasons:
1) Silicon is more mature this time; as seen by the number of chips that'll clock to all core 4.7GHz; so they are probably getting considerably lower yields that fail to meet the 'X' specification due to a mature node (which also gives the double edge sword of if they release the chip too early before failures build, they're giving away deliberately neutered 'good' silicon at a lower price than necessary)
2) 7nm is very constrained right now, given it is stretched between CPU, GPU, Consoles etc, all at once, so production will be slower than usual.

Right now, if I was a business, it literally does not make sense to release the lower tier CPU yet, with so much demand for the more expensive X CPU. They'll launch that once the initial launch demand starts to falter and they've got a bigger stock of chiplets which didn't make the grade; right now they're still struggling to get enough chips out to cover the demand.
 
Alexrose1uk said:
so they are probably getting considerably lower yields that fail to meet the 'X' specification due to a mature node
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a maturing node generally speaking gives a better yield.

but for sure the lack of supply and the huge demand for CPU and GPU makes no sense in lowering their pricing what so ever.

mid this demand keeps up till the middle of next year before supply catches up, we will be in for a long wait for price adjustment.

I do wonder if their $200 dollar part will be a 4c8t part in the future.
 
pc-guy said:
a maturing node generally speaking gives a better yield.

but for sure the lack of supply and the huge demand for CPU and GPU makes no sense in lowering their pricing what so ever.

mid this demand keeps up till the middle of next year before supply catches up, we will be in for a long wait for price adjustment.

I do wonder if their $200 dollar part will be a 4c8t part in the future.
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That's what I mean, they're getting a better yield of GOOD parts compared to the past, and a LOWER yield of parts that don't meet the grade to go into the X series chips.

They are getting less chiplets with issues or that require higher voltages to reach the same speeds/need to be clocked lower to maintain clock/voltage balance etc etc; all in all this means they have more chiplets suitable for the current X parts, than they would have done at the same duration into production than when they were producing the previous round.

Given this need to build stock of weaker chiplets to go into the lower spec parts, and the ability to sell all the X-spec chiplets they can fabricate; there isn't much incentive to route GOOD chiplets into a lower end SKU; unless demand starts drying up or they decide they NEED to capture that lower budgeted end of the market.

Whilst stock and supply/demand for the X Parts is still way out though, there is absolutely no business incentive. In fact pushing the lower silicon out early may make things even worse as there may be EVEN more demand for the chips (with people who previously weren't bothering trying to get one), with no change to supply rate.
 
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Indeed. Albeit I'm looking forward to when Zen 3 rolls out across the stack. Even the entry level Athlon will be quite potent when built on Zen 3. Not that good for gaming due to probably only 2c4th or 4c4th, but for office PCs?
Low power consumption, high single core performance, probably with reasonable basic IGPU. That'll be WONDERFUL for office PC/general purpose PC or even people in poorer countries on tighter budgets when pared with a more reasonably priced motherboard and memory, for example a £50-60 A520, and 8GB of DDR3200 and a small SSD. Probably consume less than 100W total, if kit is kept to core, assuming worst case of 50W (Zen 3 X series I believe go up to 15W per core, BUT we can draw easy conclusion these will be lower clocked and voltage so will draw less).

If they dock it down to laptop levels of power/previous Athlon power levels, then Zen 3 in an office orientated 25-35W package, probably 65W system power. Past Athlon is a 35W part, so I'm gonna consider this is likely to remain, unless they decide to really clean up across the market and move even the lower tiers of these things forward considerably to make it worth people jumping from past generations across the board. Could probably be passively cooled at lower clocks and voltages too, as long as there is a case fan drawing air over a heatsink; which'd also make these great little office units when noise is more important.

The efficiency of these things is great when they want it to be; if they were on 5nm like Apple, I daresay they'd not consume THAT much more power than Apple's M1, when you consider what AMD achieved with Renoir 7nm.
 
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Alexrose1uk said:
Low power consumption, high single core performance, probably with reasonable basic IGPU. That'll be WONDERFUL for office PC/general purpose PC or even people in poorer countries on tighter budgets when pared with a more reasonably priced motherboard and memory, for example a £50-60 A520, and 8GB of DDR3200 and a small SSD. Probably consume less than 100W total
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Great point about low power computing and poorer countries. The focus has natually been on high end GPUs and powerful CPUs but this architecture can make a real difference for people on more modest means or for tasks not requiring massive power.
 
Yep, substantially high IPC, decent clock speeds, lower power consumption than last gen. These things will be EXTREMELY popular in poorer countries when they land in lower end SKUs. Athlon 400/500/600GE or whatever it turns out to be :)
 
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