AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

Destination · 2 Jun 2021 at 08:16

aye but i think it is more for those still on 3600s who couldn't get stock, then decided to hold off until zen4, and now have been given a splendid upgrade option to keep their mobo ram etc and just swap the processor.

Richdog · 2 Jun 2021 at 08:18

Destination said:
aye but i think it is more for those still on 3600s who couldn't get stock, then decided to hold off until zen4, and now have been given a splendid upgrade option to keep their mobo ram etc and just swap the processor.

I am not sure I get your logic, as Zen3 is already widely available again without needing Zen3+ and any 3600 owner can already go out and buy a 5600x.

However, prices may go down when the Zen3+ is released so I guess prices of the regular 5600x/5800x/5900x may go down a bit.

Armageus · 2 Jun 2021 at 08:23

Richdog said:
Amyone who upgrades from Zen3 to Zen3+ needs their heads checking unless they are going from low core count to high core count (eg: 5600x to 5900x+ for specific reasons).

People regularly upgraded whole platforms to get those last <5% generation to generation IPC increase with Intel

Richdog · 2 Jun 2021 at 10:56

Armageus said:
People regularly upgraded whole platforms to get those last <5% generation to generation IPC increase with Intel

Yep as I said, people who need their heads checking.

Grim5 · 2 Jun 2021 at 11:48

Armageus said:
People regularly upgraded whole platforms to get those last <5% generation to generation IPC increase with Intel

people update their phone every year so they can cut 0.1 seconds off the time to load a webpage

LePhuronn · 2 Jun 2021 at 13:37

Richdog said:
Amyone who upgrades from Zen3 to Zen3+ needs their heads checking unless they are going from low core count to high core count (eg: 5600x to 5900x+ for specific reasons).

That depends on what you're doing.

If that gaming performance is representative of the CPU's overall ability, then bleeding edge gamers will upgrade for MOAR FPZZZZ (yes, those people do need their heads checking).
But what about cache-sensitive workloads? Gamers Nexus was talking very positively about a lot of the cache-heavy benches they use (like compiling) and how performance from this prototype could see a significant boost in those workloads. THAT is a viable use case, even if you're staying at the same core count.

Don't forget, Lisa Su's presentation was very gaming focussed, presumably because Intel still drone on and on and on about it, so she wasn't going to deep dive into cache-based workload performance uplifts for a throwaway teaser.

I'm just surprised that AMD are bringing the 3D stacking from Milan-X to desktop.

SKILL · 2 Jun 2021 at 13:38

Richdog said:
I am not sure I get your logic, as Zen3 is already widely available again without needing Zen3+ and any 3600 owner can already go out and buy a 5600x.

However, prices may go down when the Zen3+ is released so I guess prices of the regular 5600x/5800x/5900x may go down a bit.

Maybe kinda people like me, got a 3600, was looking for/'pre'-ordered (thought I was just ordering

) a 5900X back in November but cancelled it, sure they're now available but don't 'need' the upgrade and kinda undecided as to whether to just go for it or wait at this point...

Grim5 · 2 Jun 2021 at 21:16

LePhuronn said:
That depends on what you're doing.

If that gaming performance is representative of the CPU's overall ability, then bleeding edge gamers will upgrade for MOAR FPZZZZ (yes, those people do need their heads checking).
But what about cache-sensitive workloads? Gamers Nexus was talking very positively about a lot of the cache-heavy benches they use (like compiling) and how performance from this prototype could see a significant boost in those workloads. THAT is a viable use case, even if you're staying at the same core count.

Don't forget, Lisa Su's presentation was very gaming focussed, presumably because Intel still drone on and on and on about it, so she wasn't going to deep dive into cache-based workload performance uplifts for a throwaway teaser.

I'm just surprised that AMD are bringing the 3D stacking from Milan-X to desktop.

Yep, as per steve from gamers nexus - code compilers like Chromium are extremely sensitive to cache and are expected to show a significant performance boost with V-cache so there is a clear reason for a professional to upgrade

Troezar · 3 Jun 2021 at 05:30

I could see me upgrading from a 3700X to a "5900XT". That would keep me going in the CPU department for many years. No doubt see out the entire AM5 platform.

q974739 · 3 Jun 2021 at 07:34

SKILL said:
Maybe kinda people like me, got a 3600, was looking for/'pre'-ordered (thought I was just ordering ) a 5900X back in November but cancelled it, sure they're now available but don't 'need' the upgrade and kinda undecided as to whether to just go for it or wait at this point...

Ditto. Ordered a 3600 because I needed something... and that something turned out vastly better than expected. Makes upgrading further.... more challenging.

But this extra bump is very interesting.

Richdog · 3 Jun 2021 at 10:10

q974739 said:
Ditto. Ordered a 3600 because I needed something... and that something turned out vastly better than expected. Makes upgrading further.... more challenging.

But this extra bump is very interesting.

The 5600x already delivers a significant increase in fps over a 3600 at lower resolutions, any thorough review with aggregated benchmarks can show you that (Hardware Unboxed etc).

Troezar · 3 Jun 2021 at 10:38

Richdog said:
The 5600x already delivers a significant increase in fps over a 3600 at lower resolutions, any thorough review with aggregated benchmarks can show you that (Hardware Unboxed etc).

Ironically that seems to be the best reason to upgrade, if you're on a lower resolution.

NinjaCool · 3 Jun 2021 at 10:40

I always planned to skip the 5000 series as I was expecting a 5000 refresh to arrive, I was just hoping it would not be a minor XT thing. Now that AMD has confirmed a refresh with 3D V-Cache, I think a 12 core will likely be in order in the future

Troezar · 3 Jun 2021 at 11:07

NinjaCool said:
I always planned to skip the 5000 series as I was expecting a 5000 refresh to arrive, I was just hoping it would not be a minor XT thing. Now that AMD has confirmed a refresh with 3D V-Cache, I think a 12 core will likely be in order in the future

Yes I'm thinking a 12 core "5900XT" would be good for another three generations of GPU.

Calin Banc · 3 Jun 2021 at 11:15

Troezar said:
Ironically that seems to be the best reason to upgrade, if you're on a lower resolution.

Not really, even at higher resolution, if you desire a certain FPS (sacrificing graphics detail), you still need a more powerfull CPU.

Troezar · 3 Jun 2021 at 11:31

Calin Banc said:
Not really, even at higher resolution, if you desire a certain FPS (sacrificing graphics detail), you still need a more powerfull CPU.

You're usually GPU limited at 4K, if you're going to turn settings down you may as well stay at 1440p. I'm doing this myself. Why buy into 4K if I can't max it out? I'll take a lower res with everything turned up and even 1440 can push things in AAA games, RT etc.

Calin Banc · 3 Jun 2021 at 12:12

Troezar said:
You're usually GPU limited at 4K, if you're going to turn settings down you may as well stay at 1440p. I'm doing this myself. Why buy into 4K if I can't max it out? I'll take a lower res with everything turned up and even 1440 can push things in AAA games, RT etc.

Usually yes, but it depends. Even Metro got bottlenecked in certain situations (2600x + rtx2080 at @75% of 4k -> 3x1080p). Some would like to actually get to play older games like ArmA3 which are heavily bottlenecked and hard / impossible to keep at least 60fps locked, etc.

Troezar · 3 Jun 2021 at 13:48

Calin Banc said:
Usually yes, but it depends. Even Metro got bottlenecked in certain situations (2600x + rtx2080 at @75% of 4k -> 3x1080p). Some would like to actually get to play older games like ArmA3 which are heavily bottlenecked and hard / impossible to keep at least 60fps locked, etc.

I see what you're saying, I can see where there would be a case for it. Too much CPU power is always better than too little! I try to go for as much as I can afford/justify same with RAM.

q974739 · 4 Jun 2021 at 09:08

Richdog said:
The 5600x already delivers a significant increase in fps over a 3600 at lower resolutions, any thorough review with aggregated benchmarks can show you that (Hardware Unboxed etc).

I'm currently locked at 60hz, with a 3600/2060.

The 5600x likely would be a significant upgrade - and I know I need more cores long term. But after living on a 6600k for so long, the 3600 just feels magical. It's hard to see where I'd get more gain currently?

Grim5 · 4 Jun 2021 at 09:13

q974739 said:
I'm currently locked at 60hz, with a 3600/2060.

The 5600x likely would be a significant upgrade - and I know I need more cores long term. But after living on a 6600k for so long, the 3600 just feels magical. It's hard to see where I'd get more gain currently?

No reason to upgrade your cpu if you don't also upgrade that gpu