• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Doobedoo said:
Yep can't argue with that. So now we know, well kind of. What happens from here we will have to wait and see. Perhaps someone should make a name and shame /motherboard compatibility thread on this forum. Get it stickied and continuously link it in any cpu related thread.

Let's take it out the hands on Amd/Motherboard makers until it has been clarified to a sufficient level.
Click to expand...

TBH,I don't understand all the cloak and daggers style PR on their part. They have good products now,and will have even better ones over the next 12 months,in both CPU and GPU,so they just need to be forthright about things. Also Gigabyte is not going to be happy about any list.....many of their own X570 motherboards have 16MB BIOSes. Here is the list if you want to check your own motherboard:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/c1dnu3/x570x470x370b450b350a320_am4socket_motherboards/
 
What does this mean for 300/400 series motherboard users

Users of older Ryzen motherboards will likely have BIOS support for AMD's Ryzen 3000 series of Zen 2 processors, offering up to a 2x increase in core count, higher clock speeds and increased power efficiency. Zen 2 already offers users of older AM4 motherboards a great upgrade option, but sadly, AMD is no longer guaranteeing support for future Zen series Ryzen processors on its older chipsets.

With B550, AMD has also cut-off support for Zen processors that are older than Zen 2, which means that AMD's Ryzen 1000/2000 series CPUs and 2000/3000 series APUs will not be supported on B550. This will allow motherboard manufacturers to keep chipset pricing low and ensure support for future generations of Ryzen processors on AM4. With B550, and has given us a clear cut-off point for socket AM4's CPU support. With X570, AMD made a similar move by removing support for AMD's original Ryzen 1000 series processors.

If 300 series motherboards can support Zen 2, why can't 400 series chipsets support Zen 3?


This remains an unanswered question. The chart below shows that 300-series motherboards don't support Ryzen 3rd Generation Zen 2 processors, but that is not the case. At this time it is unclear whether or not AMD is completely cutting off Zen 3 support for older motherboards or simply not guaranteeing it.

In the future, we hope that AMD and motherboard manufacturers will clarify things further. Some motherboards simply won't have the BIOS space to support a new generation of Ryzen series processors, but that doesn't mean that this is impossible for all older AM4 motherboards. Regardless, owners of 300-series and 400-series AM4 motherboards should not expect to receive BIOS updates with Zen 3 CPU support. If you want forwards compatibility, you will need to be using a 500-series AM4 motherboard.
Click to expand...

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews...motherboard_support_zen_3_and_ryzen_4th_gen/1
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
TBH,I don't understand all the cloak and daggers style PR on their part. They have good products now,and will have even better ones over the next 12 months,in both CPU and GPU,so they just need to be forthright about things. Also Gigabyte is not going to be happy about any list.....many of their own X570 motherboards have 16MB BIOSes. Here is the list if you want to check your own motherboard:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/c1dnu3/x570x470x370b450b350a320_am4socket_motherboards/
Click to expand...
According to Asrock - 256Mb AMI UEFI Legal BIOS with GUI support. So it would seem I'm ok so I'll just wait until the 4000 series is out and decide if it's something that interests me hence why I brought a 3600 and not something better. If I can't I'll be disappointed but I'll get over it. Can always drop in a 3700 or higher If I need it.

https://www.asrock.com/mb/amd/x570 taichi/#Specification

Those that brought Gigabyte or the like should really take it up with them or possibly avoid in the future.
 
@CAT-THE-FIFTH

Don't let the fanboys grind you down (little theckers lol). :p

When it comes to designed obsolescence they are all guilty of it.
I was an Intel guy until mid 2019, and I'm under no illusions that AMD are saints. (it's all about the £££).
But they are currently offering the best technical advances between generations at the lowest price price points, so that's where I am.
Brand loyalty or arguments defending one over the other is just an waste of time imho.
 
Well people have examined BIOS sizes for previous AM4 BIOSes, At least for Asus,a whole BIOS supporting Bristol Ridge,Zen,Zen+ and Zen2 was 11.8MB:

v1201 (Bristol Ridge, Zen): 7.0 MB

v4207 (Bristol Ridge, Zen, Zen+): 9.5 MB

v5220 (Bristol Ridge, Zen, Zen+, Zen2): 11.8 MB
Click to expand...

ASRock was apparently around 8MB,but MSI should have no problem due to BIOS flashback,ie,you need no CPU,so they could make a straight BIOS flash with only Zen3 compatability.

Doobedoo said:
According to Asrock - 256Mb AMI UEFI Legal BIOS with GUI support. So it would seem I'm ok so I'll just wait until the 4000 series is out and decide if it's something that interests me hence why I brought a 3600 and not something better. If I can't I'll be disappointed but I'll get over it.

https://www.asrock.com/mb/amd/x570 taichi/#Specification

Those that brought Gigabyte or the like should really take it up with them or possibly avoid in the future.
Click to expand...

My Asus B450 is 32MB apparently. I know MSI does BIOS flashback,but I don't know if Gigabyte does the same?? Because if that is the case,as you need no CPU to flash the BIOS,you can technically make a Zen3 only BIOS,which is much smaller.

But still considering these are X570 motherboards,Gigabyte had no real excuse to do this. They probably spent more on the RGB and heatsink decals.

:p

The Old School Gamer said:
@CAT-THE-FIFTH

Don't let the fanboys grind you down (little fleckers lol). :p

When it comes to designed obsolescence they are all guilty of it.
I was an Intel guy until mid 2019, and I'm under no illusions that AMD are saints. (it's all about the £££).
But they are currently offering the best technical advances between generations at the lowest price price points, so that's where I am.
Brand loyalty or arguments defending one over the other is just an waste of time imho.
Click to expand...

Intel corrupting AMD like Sauron! :p

My precious monies,my precious....!
 
The Old School Gamer said:
@CAT-THE-FIFTH

Don't let the fanboys grind you down (little theckers lol). :p

When it comes to designed obsolescence they are all guilty of it. That goes for everybody not just the Pc enthusiasts.
I was an Intel guy until mid 2019, and I'm under no illusions that AMD are saints. (it's all about the £££). Bang on.
But they are currently offering the best technical advances between generations at the lowest price price points, so that's where I am. Same again
Brand loyalty or arguments defending one over the other is just an waste of time imho.
Click to expand...
About as real as it gets.
 
NinjaCool said:
AMD Does An Intel, Axes Zen 3 on 400-Series Motherboards, Our Thoughts
Click to expand...

Updates: AMD has refrained from commenting and therefore addressing any of our questions at this point, but we have had some interesting conversations with a few of their partners. Again to be perfectly clear on this point, board partners cannot support Ryzen 4000 series processors on 400-series motherboards without AMD’s help, it’s simply not possible. So don’t expect an AIB to crack the code and open up support, again without AMD’s support it’s not going to happen. It does seem as though this was a recent decision by AMD and their partners found out the same time we did, so that’s truly bizarre, but then given the last few product releases from AMD it’s getting harder and harder to be suprised by this stuff.

I’ve also had industry contacts confirm that the AMD BIOS excuse is rubbish and that simple workarounds are possible, just like the one I discussed. In one example there would be a single large BIOS file that you download, then upon flashing you select the CPU series you want to support and it flashes the appropriate code. So at this point it’s now up to the rest of the community to pressure AMD into changing this decision and to open up support for 400-series boards. You guys had better believe that if you give them an inch, they’ll take a mile and we’ll be back to where we were just a few years ago.
Click to expand...

AMD board partners were in the dark too??

Doobedoo said:
Has that not already been posted?
Click to expand...

It's a new video.
 
Last edited:
Oh ok so much has been posted it's hard to keep up.

Lets keep the pressure on them then. But also keeping in mind some may have an agenda so may be better to keep an open mind for the meantime as we're still not sure, but it's safe to assume to a point that 400 series motherboards will not support 4000 series until told otherwise.
 
I wonder if there's going to be some kind of legal action brewing between AMD and MSI over the MAX marketing? MSI are now foul of false advertising because of AMD's decision, and even if MSI are covered with getout clauses (of course they are), there's potentially a lot of ill will coming their way that's not actually their fault.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
This is getting weirder and weirder by the second.
Click to expand...
Yes indeed. This is in fact looking like planned obsolescence or lack of a plan obsolescence. This is not good and yes upon review I would certainly be very annoyed if I had brought a 400 series motherboard. Not good.

They need to fix this and quickly.
 
The PCI-E 4.0 does not work thing is also a bit dubious IMHO. Those BIOSes are still up if you don't want a newer AGESA too - AMD had to force OEMs to remove them. People might disagree but a £50 Chinese OEM motherboard won't be better made than a £300 X470 designed for LN2 overclocking and high voltages,ie,they will have more layers and thicker traces. AMD is basically forcing OEMs not to SELECTIVELY add PCI-E 4.0 to certain motherboards or supply them with microcode for Zen3 compatibility.

If we ignore all that the biggest problem here it's not only DIY builders who were kept in the dark,but system integrators and motherboard OEMs for a whole year it seems. AMD would know about the basic technical specifications of Zen3, as I would expect they already have samples out there.


Doobedoo said:
Yes indeed. This is in fact looking like planned obsolescence or lack of a plan obsolescence. This is not good and yes upon review I would certainly be very annoyed if I had brought a 400 series motherboard. Not good.

They need to fix this and quickly.
Click to expand...

AMD really puts it's foot in it at times.

:p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom