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AMD Zen 3 (5000 Series), rumored 17% IPC gain.

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TNA said:
No rush. My 3600 still feels brand new, only had it for 2 months now. Plus I will be waiting until the 5000 series comes out and get a 4000 series on the cheap at that point. Unless AM5 ends up being even better then expected, I may jump on that and hand what I have down to my partner :D
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Indeed! Im in 2 minds at the moment, currently on Zen+ and waiting for the 4000 series. The rumours of 17% IPC increase is fantastic, and assuming 100-200mhz clock speed increase, thats some pretty crazy performance increase even compared to the current 3000 series.

Issue is whether to go for that, or wait for AM5 and do a full new build on 5nm, where I assume the gains will be even larger than from zen2 to zen3.

AMD doing too well
 
Grim5 said:
And that score is a bit higher than Intel's very expensive i9-9880H 8c/16c (RRP $556usd)

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...9880h-processor-16m-cache-up-to-4-80-ghz.html

https://benchmarks.ul.com/hardware/cpu/Intel+Core+i9-9880H+Processor+review
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Amazing!

I always did think that the main benefit of the improved manufacturing node (7nm vs 14nm++++) is where the mobile chips will see the biggest benefit. There is just no way that Intel can keep up with AMD in this regard as they bring better performance at lower TDP and less heat.

If Intel can't do anything about this, they are going to be seriously screwed. Losing in the desktop market is one thing, but losing out in the laptop/mobile market? That would be huge as most regular customers tend to use laptops these days anyway
 
This is getting brutal now.
I didn't think that AMD would be able to keep pushing this hard across all platforms.
If they can sort out the power consumption of the mobile platform at idle they will leave Intel without a dominant market sector versus AMD.
As good as the initial Zen release was I didn't see this coming.
 
Praz94 said:
Indeed! Im in 2 minds at the moment, currently on Zen+ and waiting for the 4000 series. The rumours of 17% IPC increase is fantastic, and assuming 100-200mhz clock speed increase, thats some pretty crazy performance increase even compared to the current 3000 series.

Issue is whether to go for that, or wait for AM5 and do a full new build on 5nm, where I assume the gains will be even larger than from zen2 to zen3.

AMD doing too well
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Or why not wait until 2050 the gains in that year will be even better
 
Psycho Sonny said:
Or why not wait until 2050 the gains in that year will be even better
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I waited over 6 years for gains. Don’t see the problem with doing so. What is the point in upgrading for silly gains which is what intel offered all these years?

Not like if you have a 2000 series 6 or 8 core cpu you are in a position where you are dying for an upgrade. You do make odd comments sometimes Sonny.
 
TNA said:
I waited over 6 years for gains. Don’t see the problem with doing so. What is the point in upgrading for silly gains which is what intel offered all these years?

Not like if you have a 2000 series 6 or 8 core cpu you are in a position where you are dying for an upgrade. You do make odd comments sometimes Sonny.
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No his comment is odd.

There will always be gains year on year.

You buy whenever you want to buy you don't base the decision on future gains. Otherwise you would never upgrade.

If you already have a ryzen mobo all it takes is a bios update and a cpu change.

I have upgraded to a 3600x and will be upgrading to the 4600x.

I will then wait before jumping to a new motherboard. I'll probably wait for the second gen on the new platform before upgrading. So a 6600x or whatever they will name it.

However cpu power is at a point where I don't really need any more power. The 3600x barely breaks a sweat with my usage.

That's why I will wait before making a big platform jump. I think my gpu is also good for at least 2 years with the 2070 super.

Got a brand new 1tb M2 nvme. Monitor is probably the best for my usage and just got a new mouse.

So the only thing I have to upgrade really is the cpu next year and it will only cost £200. Sell old cpu for £100 and its a cheap upgrade. Which is why I will do it.

He already has everything he needs. It's a simple cheap upgrade and IMO no point in waiting to do.

Like I said above it will cost me £100 to go from a 3600x to a 4600x.

It would be stupid not to upgrade.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
No his comment is odd.

There will always be gains year on year.

You buy whenever you want to buy you don't base the decision on future gains. Otherwise you would never upgrade.

If you already have a ryzen mobo all it takes is a bios update and a cpu change.

I have upgraded to a 3600x and will be upgrading to the 4600x.

I will then wait before jumping to a new motherboard. I'll probably wait for the second gen on the new platform before upgrading. So a 6600x or whatever they will name it.

However cpu power is at a point where I don't really need any more power. The 3600x barely breaks a sweat with my usage.

That's why I will wait before making a big platform jump. I think my gpu is also good for at least 2 years with the 2070 super.

Got a brand new 1tb M2 nvme. Monitor is probably the best for my usage and just got a new mouse.

So the only thing I have to upgrade really is the cpu next year and it will only cost £200. Sell old cpu for £100 and its a cheap upgrade. Which is why I will do it.

He already has everything he needs. It's a simple cheap upgrade and IMO no point in waiting to do.

Like I said above it will cost me £100 to go from a 3600x to a 4600x.

It would be stupid not to upgrade.
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Lol. Why is it you would not be stupid/odd to upgrade your GPU when the 3070 hits but he is because he won’t upgrade his CPU?

Was it stupid/odd that I never upgraded from my 4770K for over 6 years?

What you seem to be suffering from is thinking everyone thinks or feels like you. Nope all our needs are different. For me I actually did not even need to upgrade to my 3600, as my CPU was never a bottleneck at 4.7GHz due to being a 4K60FPS gamer. It was more of an upgrade itch, together with the 3600 offering good price for performance and Intel’s hundreds of security issues that made me upgrade.

Hopefully you can see, it is not odd at all. If what you have is good enough for your needs, there is nothing wrong with waiting until it either is not anymore or until enough future gains add up to make it worthwhile.

Just to be sure you get it, let’s try this. Why is it that it is odd for him to wait for 30-40% performance improvement (assuming he’s goes for the same amount of cares) but it is not odd for you to upgrade to a 3070 that is rumoured to offer just as big performance gain? And please don’t straw man, just answer the question. If the only difference is money, then that is all relative no?

I could go into a lot more detail, but I am hoping what I have said already is enough to get through to you. Hopefully you won’t take the stubborn “I am never wrong” 4K8K route and proceed to ignore what I have said and continue to bang on :p

My conclusion is his comment is not odd, yours is. There is nothing wrong with waiting for enough performance to build up before upgrading ;)
 
TNA said:
Lol. Why is it you would not be stupid/odd to upgrade your GPU when the 3070 hits but he is because he won’t upgrade his CPU?

Was it stupid/odd that I never upgraded from my 4770K for over 6 years?

What you seem to be suffering from is thinking everyone thinks or feels like you. Nope all our needs are different. For me I actually did not even need to upgrade to my 3600, as my CPU was never a bottleneck at 4.7GHz due to being a 4K60FPS gamer. It was more of an upgrade itch, together with the 3600 offering good price for performance and Intel’s hundreds of security issues that made me upgrade.

Hopefully you can see, it is not odd at all. If what you have is good enough for your needs, there is nothing wrong with waiting until it either is not anymore or until enough future gains add up to make it worthwhile.

Just to be sure you get it, let’s try this. Why is it that it is odd for him to wait for 30-40% performance improvement (assuming he’s goes for the same amount of cares) but it is not odd for you to upgrade to a 3070 that is rumoured to offer just as big performance gain? And please don’t straw man, just answer the question. If the only difference is money, then that is all relative no?

I could go into a lot more detail, but I am hoping what I have said already is enough to get through to you. Hopefully you won’t take the stubborn “I am never wrong” 4K8K route and proceed to ignore what I have said and continue to bang on :p

My conclusion is his comment is not odd, yours is. There is nothing wrong with waiting for enough performance to build up before upgrading ;)
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Because the 3070 wouldn't be a good value for money upgrade.

It would cost at least £200 to do and likely a lot more.

Upgrading the cpu on the same platform costs £100.

It will then future proof me somewhat and the extra cpu grunt will make a difference as it's about core speed rather than total multi core power.

£100 upgrade to gain say 30% more cpu power is a no brainer if the leaks are true.

£300 upgrade to get 20% more gpu power not so much.

The reason why you were smart not to upgrade on Intel was a similar story. You need to pay for cpu and a motherboard. So again £400 for 20% more cpu power.

That would be a dumb upgrade because it isn't worth it.

However upgrading on the same platform is a no brainer.

If AMD keep this up I will never buy Intel again. I have bought 2 Intel systems within the past 3 years and the fact that I had to shell out for a motherboard to upgrade from one to the other really didn't sit well with me.

AMD however they have managed to keep the same socket is Intels biggest achilles heel IMO.

Lets say Intel were to match amd for speed in 3 years time.

You shell out £500 for Intel cpu and mobo. Then 2 years later they want another £500. Whereas with AMD it costs £100 per year to upgrade.

If you use your pc daily or a few times a week. You will easily see that £100 in value back over the year.

That's why it's a no brainer and your examples not. I had an Intel 2500k for nearly a decade before upgrading to a 7600k. Then I got a ryzen 1700x for second pc then I upgraded the 7600k to an 8500 before I sold it and then I sold the 7600k when I got the 3600x.

I had 3 pcs now I'm down to two as I got a second 3600.

Mate at work even upgraded from 1700 to a 3600. This is someone who never upgrades his pcs. He buys once and sits on it for 5 years then buys again. He did so because it was a no brainer.
 
All the above is according to the value YOU put on a certain level of performance uplift, everyone is different.

For example my 2080ti is bottle-necking my Valve index at 144hz, i would jump on a 3080ti for £1250 or whatever even if it only gave me a 20% performance increase, for me the value of 144hz performance is worth it yet it may sound stupid to you.
 
Timing is everything in PC hardware. Many times I've seen people upgrade because they get the itch only to find they bought the last gen before the real gains arrived. This is usually due to not paying attention. I nearly jumped in at first gen Intel but hit wind that Sandybridge would be a big leap in performance. It lasted me 8 years :eek:

I waited and watched Ryzen play out and decided that for me the 3000 series would be the best point to buy. PCIE 4.0 that won't be saturated for a long while, good quality AMD motherboards and at least one more gen of upgrade potential up to 16 cores. For my general use I reckon I'll get another 8 years out of it.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
Because the 3070 wouldn't be a good value for money upgrade.

It would cost at least £200 to do and likely a lot more.

Upgrading the cpu on the same platform costs £100.

It will then future proof me somewhat and the extra cpu grunt will make a difference as it's about core speed rather than total multi core power.

£100 upgrade to gain say 30% more cpu power is a no brainer if the leaks are true.

£300 upgrade to get 20% more gpu power not so much.

The reason why you were smart not to upgrade on Intel was a similar story. You need to pay for cpu and a motherboard. So again £400 for 20% more cpu power.

That would be a dumb upgrade because it isn't worth it.

However upgrading on the same platform is a no brainer.

If AMD keep this up I will never buy Intel again. I have bought 2 Intel systems within the past 3 years and the fact that I had to shell out for a motherboard to upgrade from one to the other really didn't sit well with me.

AMD however they have managed to keep the same socket is Intels biggest achilles heel IMO.

Lets say Intel were to match amd for speed in 3 years time.

You shell out £500 for Intel cpu and mobo. Then 2 years later they want another £500. Whereas with AMD it costs £100 per year to upgrade.

If you use your pc daily or a few times a week. You will easily see that £100 in value back over the year.

That's why it's a no brainer and your examples not. I had an Intel 2500k for nearly a decade before upgrading to a 7600k. Then I got a ryzen 1700x for second pc then I upgraded the 7600k to an 8500 before I sold it and then I sold the 7600k when I got the 3600x.

I had 3 pcs now I'm down to two as I got a second 3600.

Mate at work even upgraded from 1700 to a 3600. This is someone who never upgrades his pcs. He buys once and sits on it for 5 years then buys again. He did so because it was a no brainer.
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It seems I failed to get through to you :P

No big deal. I do get where you are coming from, I just do not agree with it in this instance.
 
TNA said:
Lol. Why is it you would not be stupid/odd to upgrade your GPU when the 3070 hits but he is because he won’t upgrade his CPU?

Was it stupid/odd that I never upgraded from my 4770K for over 6 years?

What you seem to be suffering from is thinking everyone thinks or feels like you. Nope all our needs are different. For me I actually did not even need to upgrade to my 3600, as my CPU was never a bottleneck at 4.7GHz due to being a 4K60FPS gamer. It was more of an upgrade itch, together with the 3600 offering good price for performance and Intel’s hundreds of security issues that made me upgrade.

Hopefully you can see, it is not odd at all. If what you have is good enough for your needs, there is nothing wrong with waiting until it either is not anymore or until enough future gains add up to make it worthwhile.

Just to be sure you get it, let’s try this. Why is it that it is odd for him to wait for 30-40% performance improvement (assuming he’s goes for the same amount of cares) but it is not odd for you to upgrade to a 3070 that is rumoured to offer just as big performance gain? And please don’t straw man, just answer the question. If the only difference is money, then that is all relative no?

I could go into a lot more detail, but I am hoping what I have said already is enough to get through to you. Hopefully you won’t take the stubborn “I am never wrong” 4K8K route and proceed to ignore what I have said and continue to bang on :p

My conclusion is his comment is not odd, yours is. There is nothing wrong with waiting for enough performance to build up before upgrading ;)
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Thanks for the support haha!

I do understand both points of view, but the reason I considered waiting is that I have actually no need to upgrade right now when my PC seems to be performing just fine. Also im not someone to be upgrading year on year, and only look to upgrade once in a while, so if I was to get a new CPU, i would stick with it for a good few years before considering upgrading.
 
Praz94 said:
Thanks for the support haha!

I do understand both points of view, but the reason I considered waiting is that I have actually no need to upgrade right now when my PC seems to be performing just fine. Also im not someone to be upgrading year on year, and only look to upgrade once in a while, so if I was to get a new CPU, i would stick with it for a good few years before considering upgrading.
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I did try and explain that to him, but he was having none of it. Odd no? :p:D
 
Grim5 said:
And that score is a bit higher than Intel's very expensive i9-9880H 8c/16c (RRP $556usd)

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...9880h-processor-16m-cache-up-to-4-80-ghz.html

https://benchmarks.ul.com/hardware/cpu/Intel+Core+i9-9880H+Processor+review
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Yeah if the 9880H is throttling/TDP restricted. If not it scores about 21K.
https://www.3dmark.com/fs/21266376


That being said, that is still mightily impressive given last gen for AMD in laptop were 4c8th.
That is right up there :)
 
Praz94 said:
Thanks for the support haha!

I do understand both points of view, but the reason I considered waiting is that I have actually no need to upgrade right now when my PC seems to be performing just fine. Also im not someone to be upgrading year on year, and only look to upgrade once in a while, so if I was to get a new CPU, i would stick with it for a good few years before considering upgrading.
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with ryzen though it's not a full upgrade and it makes sense to upgrade your cpu year on year. it's only £100 to get a large gain.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
with ryzen though it's not a full upgrade and it makes sense to upgrade your cpu year on year. it's only £100 to get a large gain.
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Definitely disagree about upgrading cpu year on year. Maybe 15-20 years ago when you actually felt a difference from each upgrade, but now?

I am still not sure which way to go right now. Keep what I got and upgrade to an 4900X in 2-3 years when they are dirt cheap and be done with upgrading again for another 6 years, or pass this system down to my partner and get on the AM5 platform from the start and then upgrade just the CPU on that once they release final version before they move to AM6.

Right now I am leaning towards going for the AM5 platform for myself and then pass what I got along. Then I can wait even 3-4 years and get a 4900X or 4950X for super cheap then for it.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
with ryzen though it's not a full upgrade and it makes sense to upgrade your cpu year on year. it's only £100 to get a large gain.
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Thats if you're lucky, ive seen the MM and usually you lose a lot more than you think.

Also AM5 is right around the corner as well
 
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