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*** AMD "Zen 4" thread (inc AM5/APU discussion) ***

Destination said:
Well rocket lake did kill AMD in the sub £200 segment, simply to AMD not having anything poor enough to launch in that price range. They're back to last gen for that competition.
:p
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The problem with that is AMD are selling more 5900X than Intel are sub $200 CPU's, maybe even scalped 5950X but its difficult to judge as i see them in stock less often.

AMD don't have anything Zen 3 in the sub $200 bracket as the Ryzen 3600 is still the #1 seller, yes i agree the 11400F is better than that but there you are, that's how the mindshare has shifted. AMD = Premium, Intel = Bulldozer.

All of AMD's Zen 3 CPU's are consistently in the top 10 sellers. Intel's heavily discounted Coffee Lake CPU's sell better than Comet Lake and Rocket Lake. like the 9700K for a bit over £200.
 
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The APUs (currently) are predominantly used in laptops, where big.LITTLE makes a huge amount of sense... It's the desktop where it doesn't (Looking at you Alder Lake...)

Although it's a rumour of a generation 2-3 in the future, that's several supertankers worth of salt required :p

Also does that roadmap show Warhol as cancelled?
 
The thing is the big/little of Intel current doesn't make sense because it isn't like we don't have 16 big cores / 4 little cores like we may well have with AMD where there is still the big grunt for things where more cores needed but the little cores just to run background apps etc. Also gives time for Windows and Linux to mature more with working with various core options from a single chip. Seems like a good long term medium/long term plan where Intel seemed to have jumped gun slightly in my view.
 
It looks like for the next few years at least Intel CPU's are still monolithic, it seems Intel are using the Big + Little to make up the numbers, because if you can't match your competitor for raw core count fudge it and hope no one thinks about it too much, in marketing terms that has been Intel's MO for several years.

AMD have a central foundation die to which you literally plug cores into, want 16 cores? plug another core cluster into it, want 32 cores? plug 4 core clusters into it, 64 cores? Well plug 8 into it then.... there are limits but those limits are how many core clusters you can fit on a PCB, or how big can you make the PCB.

Its ingenious and at this stage AMD have this technology so nailed down there are no drawbacks.
 
SKILL said:
Also does that roadmap show Warhol as cancelled?
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Yeah I also heard they cancelled warhol as well, one of the biggest reasons being the chip shortage. Plus it was always just going to be a little refresh anyway as its zen3+ so I guess AMD are just saving up for another generational leap with Zen4 (which btw, looks insane)
 
ZP9 said:
Yeah I also heard they cancelled warhol as well, one of the biggest reasons being the chip shortage. Plus it was always just going to be a little refresh anyway as its zen3+ so I guess AMD are just saving up for another generational leap with Zen4 (which btw, looks insane)
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AMD probably planned Warhol to fight Intels 11th gen. But as Rocket Lake wass a flop and is barely competitive with Zen3, there is no need for a refresh.

Zen4 does look impressive. But rumored release "mid/late 2022" is meh. Will give Alder Lake some time under the limelight.
 
alec said:
AMD probably planned Warhol to fight Intels 11th gen. But as Rocket Lake wass a flop and is barely competitive with Zen3, there is no need for a refresh.

Zen4 does look impressive. But rumored release "mid/late 2022" is meh. Will give Alder Lake some time under the limelight.
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For sure yeah, chip shortage was probably the main reason but the fact rocket lake was pretty bad made it so they didnt absolutely have to release warhol.

Zen4 release date looks like its a while away though which is a pain
 
I'd be kinda surprised if they don't release <something> either end of this year or early 2022, given their previous 'just over a year' release schedule.

Chip shortage shouldn't really affect things that much, and even though Rocket Lake is a bit meh, and I suspect Alder Lake isn't going to set the world on fire, there's still a benefit to AMD continuing to release new/better chips.
 
Simon Collins said:
I think even desktop CPU's should have some little cores on the chip, if only to help reduce power consumption down when not really working the processor hard. I mean, how much power, speed of a processor do you need when just web browsing or doing a spreadsheet, word processing.

Now if Big Little can get into the GPU side as well, I don't see why AMD can't just put a 2D small GPU chiplet in the card where power consumption can drop 90-95% while just doing simple tasks such as displaying email and all. And the Big side kicking in whenever you want to do something which needs a bit more oomph.

Which in turn can help with thermals and power reduction there as you may not need to have said power used and could possibly get away with zero fan and/or very low pump speed. Yeah, single computer wouldn't save much overall but when you add a lot more systems from town, city, country, continent then we're on about saving a fair bit of power and carbon being created making that power.

PC's need to evolve and this is probably one way to do it, sort out power saving better in this way with means to turning off any part of a CPU/GPU when not needed and instantly turning it on when you do need it.

That's the future, so I do see benefits of it within laptop and desktop processors really.
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How much does power consumption really even matter though when it comes to a desktop? It makes very little difference imo
 
A relevant story about M1 in Mac
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...-cpu-but-m1-macs-feel-even-faster-due-to-qos/

M1 does have little chips for low priority tasks. But main magic is happening with OS scheduler. It has separate groups for background and non-interactive tasks and sticks them to low power cores so that the fast cores are always available. (Unlike current Windows scheduler, that will still pick fastest cores for background tasks)

I claim same could be done with current setup of equivalent cores. Zen3 is already super power efficient at low power states. Unfortunately it is also very eager to come out of low power and go max boost at any hint of load.

The difficult task is to make Windows aware what threads are low priority, and give it a way to tell CPU to take it easy on those
Then it could schedule them on worse cores, kept at low power states, below 3GHz. And best 5GHz cores would be free to pick up any actual user-interactive work.
 
lga change makes sense.
almost same pin count as Alder Lake 1700 socket. Imagine if Intel and AMD agree on common cooler mounting points for once?
 
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