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*** AMD "Zen 4" thread (inc AM5/APU discussion) ***

@ScottiB Looks like a couple other retailers have some Asus X670E Extreme boards in stock now, hopefully OCUK aren't too far behind?

Can at least then build my system on air while waiting for the EK AM5 and 4090 FE blocks to come in :)

Edit: Just had dispatch notification! Excellent :D
 
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Zen4 is actually pretty efficient which is no great surprise.
And RPL is pretty inefficient even at just gaming.
PCGH did an 2022 CPU efficiency article:
www.pcgameshardware.de

CPU-Stromverbrauch 2024: PCGH-Effizienz-Index für Prozessoren, Fps pro Watt und mehr [März]

Auf der dritten Seite des Artikels CPU-Verbrauch 2024 tragen wir alle Informationen zusammen und präsentieren Ihnen den PCGH-Effizienz-Index.
www.pcgameshardware.de www.pcgameshardware.de
ZOAK95G.png
(or inverted for those who prefer it that way:
B8kjZcu.png
).

And for apps:
4nK9I81.png
I guess for those going max-all-out, RPL might be able to use better DDR5 timing. But for plug and play 5800X3D really is hard to beat especially since with a cheapish board and 3200/3600 DDR4 it probably costs as 13900K does on its own.
 
rumple9 said:
There's no justification at all to buy an am5 platform given the prices. Even if it's a brand new build you can get Am4 for half the price with no performance difference
Click to expand...

The conclusion I have come to. It just makes no sense barring longevity, but when AM4 could easily last another 5 years is that even really a consideration?
 
Darujhistan said:
The conclusion I have come to. It just makes no sense barring longevity, but when AM4 could easily last another 5 years is that even really a consideration?
Click to expand...
I agree. I can't see prices of motherboards, chips and ram coming down too much in the next year or so given current economic conditions. The only reason to go to AM5 would be when they bring out the x3d chips next year but they will be stupidly priced maybe £550+ (so you're looking at £1000 for cpu, mobo & ram) and again the main people that will benefit from such chips are those that play on 1080p high refresh.

Might be worth it skipping this generation and wait a couple of years to upgrade to AM5 for the 8000 series when hopefully prices have come down, manufacturing faults ironed out and drivers have matured
 
rumple9 said:
There's no justification at all to buy an am5 platform given the prices. Even if it's a brand new build you can get Am4 for half the price with no performance difference
Click to expand...
If you are building a new PC, why does it need to be justified?

It's true that Zen 3 is just fine for gaming, but why limit yourself with an AM4 platform that is end of life?

You can build quite a good AM5 system for about £800 (with decent DDR5), but the cost mounts up if you need a power supply and CPU cooler too.
I don't personally think >8 cores on Zen 4 would be worth it, but you've got the ability to upgrade later if needed.

I also do not think the X670 motherboards are worth the cost, with the VRMs on many B650 motherboards already being quite beefy, compared to previous generations. Also, I've seen a B650E Riptide sell for as low as £240, so don't see a reason to spend more (except, perhaps to get an even beefier VRM).

I'd agree that for many, it might be preferable to wait for Zen 5 CPUs, if you already have a system with performance you are happy with.
 
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rumple9 said:
There's no justification at all to buy an am5 platform given the prices. Even if it's a brand new build you can get Am4 for half the price with no performance difference
Click to expand...

Your 100% wrong there
Why would you even think that?
100% wrong that is bad by any account.
Imagine having to change ones mind when your 100% wrong about something.
g67575 said:
If you are building a new PC, why does it need to be justified?

It's true that Zen 3 is just fine for gaming, but why limit yourself with an AM4 platform that is end of life?

You can build quite a good AM5 system for about £800 (with decent DDR5), but the cost mounts up if you need a power supply and CPU cooler too.
I don't personally think >8 cores on Zen 4 would be worth it, but you've got the ability to upgrade later if needed.

I also do not think the X670 motherboards are worth the cost, with the VRMs on many B650 motherboards already being quite beefy, compared to previous generations. Also, I've seen a B650E Riptide sell for as low as £240, so don't see a reason to spend more (except, perhaps to get an even beefier VRM).

I'd agree that for many, it might be preferable to wait for Zen 5 CPUs, if you already have a system with performance you are happy with.
Click to expand...

As a budget gamer myself, I keep buying 6 cores as it fits for me.
Upgrading from a 5600x to a 7600x saw perfomance boost at 1440p with a vega56 card.
So if someone would listen to a forum expert like rumpl9 they would assume and believe there is no difference between am4 and am5 and there is a massive difference.

I bought cheap ram, 100euro or so.
b650 board and a 7600x
Now, the option to upgrade to x3D second generation is there.
I can still sell the old 5600x and recoup the cost if wanted.
So as a owner and upgrading such I am happy with the upgrade as it gave more performance.
and I am using curve optimizer which seems to work great as far.

Next upgrade is a mid range rdna3 card. It be a decent upgrade.

I could gone for a 5800x3d but then I be stuck with no upgrade path in place.
zen4 just make the best sense as it has x3D tech coming.
 
RBImGuy said:
As a budget gamer myself, I keep buying 6 cores as it fits for me.
Upgrading from a 5600x to a 7600x saw perfomance boost at 1440p with a vega56 card.
Click to expand...



17c.png
 
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g67575 said:
I wonder how much of an improvement TSMC's 4nm process will offer for Ryzen CPUs?

Maybe they will be able to run at lower voltages?
Click to expand...

The tsmc 4nm process is just an improved 5nm process rework, off the top of my head it's like 10% better, it's just a minor refresh step rather than a major new node. Tsmc 6nm is also just a minor refresh from 7nm, Sony recently switched the PlayStation 5 SOC from 7nm to 6nm and all they got from it was 10% lower power draw.
 
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rumple9 said:
I agree. I can't see prices of motherboards, chips and ram coming down too much in the next year or so given current economic conditions. The only reason to go to AM5 would be when they bring out the x3d chips next year but they will be stupidly priced maybe £550+ (so you're looking at £1000 for cpu, mobo & ram) and again the main people that will benefit from such chips are those that play on 1080p high refresh.

Might be worth it skipping this generation and wait a couple of years to upgrade to AM5 for the 8000 series when hopefully prices have come down, manufacturing faults ironed out and drivers have matured
Click to expand...

Yep, I've ordered a 5700X, chose that over 5800X due to power consumption and temps and 5700X is basically a 5800X anyway in performance terms, and 32GB of 3200MHZ RAM for about £350. I'll get at least £100 for my old 2600 and 16GB RAM, making it about £650 cheaper than the AM5 upgrade I was looking at.
 
rumple9 said:
There's no justification at all to buy an am5 platform given the prices. Even if it's a brand new build you can get Am4 for half the price with no performance difference
Click to expand...

5800X3D is just too good. IMO AM5 launch should have been delayed until X3D parts are available, then AM5 would have been hugely popular and flown off the shelves.

Hoping the X3D 7000 series launch sooner than later :)
 
@Grim5 - This might interest you:

wikichip_tsmc_logic_node_q3_2021.png


From TSMC's N5 node > 'N4P,' there is an 11% performance improvement at the same power usage, or a 22% improvement in power consumption, at the same performance level.

Originally announced in 2021:
fuse.wikichip.org

TSMC Extends Its 5nm Family With A New Enhanced-Performance N4P Node

TSMC introduces a new 5-nanometer derivative - an enhanced performance N4P node.
fuse.wikichip.org fuse.wikichip.org

It's a smaller improvement from N7 > N5, but not much smaller.
 
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Re eco mode. I just set eco mode under pbo something in bios, CPU z shows 105tdp. Is that all I had to do?
It's still boosts to 5.5. I thought it was supposed to lose speed
 
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Noxia said:
Re eco mode. I just set eco mode under pbo something in bios, CPU z shows 105tdp. Is that all I had to do?
It's still boosts to 5.5. I thought it was supposed to lose speed
Click to expand...

Yes, that's all you have to do.
You'll still get max clocks from games and programs that only use a few cores.
The bigger drops come when you load all the cores, you can see exactly how much running Cinebench R23 in standard and Eco mode.
 
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