Caporegime
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*** AMD "Zen 4" thread (inc AM5/APU discussion) ***
Associate
- Joined
- 7 Nov 2017
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any actual proof rather than just a twitter post.
Soldato
AMD confirms Ryzen 7000 memory 'sweet spot' is DDR5-6000 - VideoCardz.com
AMD Ryzen 7000 memory sweet spot it DDR5-6000 Robert Hallock, Technical Marketing Manager for AMD, confirmed on official Discord channel what would be the best memory configuration for Ryzen 7000 series. For Ryzen 7000 series, the best choice for DDR5 memory would be 6000 MT/s. By sweet spot...
videocardz.com
@RavenXXX2 - Beat me to it! Looks like good news 
What I take from this is that:
It sounds like higher FCLK might be possible in some cases, but basically silicon lottery.
Also, in case you missed it, it looks like you can use DDR5 EXPO or XMP modules on AM5 boards, both technologies should be supported.
What I take from this is that:
- FCLK runs upto 2000mhz (auto should be set to determine the max FCLK)
- IMC (UCLK) runs upto 3000mhz
- DRAM (MCLK) upto 3000mhz
It sounds like higher FCLK might be possible in some cases, but basically silicon lottery.
Also, in case you missed it, it looks like you can use DDR5 EXPO or XMP modules on AM5 boards, both technologies should be supported.
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 Sep 2018
- Posts
- 2,503
lol where’s all my bros who fought the “amd will do 1:1 fclk:mclk because Halicock won’t lie to me”!?
Come on out and embrace that L like a pro!
Come on out and embrace that L like a pro!
The full ratio is 2:1:1 (fclk:uclk:mclk) 
I'm happy, the memory controller can be clocked to 3000mhz.
Not gonna mention the DDR5 IMC on Goldencove, could start a flame war...
Maybe I just don't know any better, how much did the FCLK matter for performance in past Zen generations?
I'm happy, the memory controller can be clocked to 3000mhz.
Not gonna mention the DDR5 IMC on Goldencove, could start a flame war...
Maybe I just don't know any better, how much did the FCLK matter for performance in past Zen generations?
Caporegime
Chap is the editor of Wccftech.
problem is that as is typical with Twitter, you get no important details, just selectively chosen info.
Wccftech is pretty dubious, as the saying goes "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".
Caporegime
TBF,with the CPUs running at nearly 6GHZ,I am not surprised if the top models would need decent cooling. Its not stopped all the Intel fans!!
So something like this is the sweet spot? Memory is one of these things. I've never really understood the performance benefit of.
www.overclockers.co.uk
Kingston FURY Beast 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C40 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit
Order Kingston FURY Beast 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C40 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit now online and benefit from fast delivery.
www.overclockers.co.uk
Something like that. You can get lower CL modules iyw, or just save your money. Or, buy higher frequency modules (for the future) and downclock to 6000 MT/s on Zen 4.So something like this is the sweet spot? Memory is one of these things. I've never really understood the performance benefit of.
Kingston FURY Beast 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C40 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit
Order Kingston FURY Beast 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C40 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit now online and benefit from fast delivery.
Higher frequency RAM at the same timings, will always have lower total latency, but needs higher voltages for stability.
I’m more excited about Zen5 as well in general but I don’t think I can wait till 2024 and then I would probably want the X3D version so probably would have to wait till late 2024! Although it’s tempting to wait till late 2024 and I could pick that up with the 5090.I personally think Zen5 is where it will be at:
AMD Patents big.Little Core Task Transition Tech For Ryzen 8000 Zen 5 Processors
A new patent application suggests AMD is planning to bring Zen into hybrid waters, just like Intel is doing starting with its Alder Lake processors.hothardware.com
I could see Zen5 increasing core counts per tier. So probably Zen5 "big cores" and Zen4D "little cores". Then probably an updated platform with universal PCI-E 5.0 on cheaper motherboards,and higher speed/lower latency DDR5.
Caporegime
I am on Zen3 ATM,and personally I think can wait(as long as my setup works). I am hoping core counts on all the Ryzen CPUs models will increase overall. Then I can get a core count increase as well. ATM,I would need to spend a few times more on a Ryzen 7 7900X too give me a core count increase over my Ryzen 7 5700X.
Can someone tell me what the benefits of a higher fclk (>2000mhz) would likely be on Zen 4? I haven't a clue.
Edit - This is what Hallock says about about fclk on Zen 4:
"Each memory speed has its own optimal fclk, which is why I'm gently guiding people to not worry about what the fclk is because it's going to change with RAM speed and the AUTO setting will usually give the most performant result unless you have an astonishing overclocker".
It does seem that previous rumours hinting that the fclk could be set to 3000mhz are incorrect, in reality 3000mhz seems to correspond to the RAM and memory controller frequencies (1:1).
Edit - This is what Hallock says about about fclk on Zen 4:
"Each memory speed has its own optimal fclk, which is why I'm gently guiding people to not worry about what the fclk is because it's going to change with RAM speed and the AUTO setting will usually give the most performant result unless you have an astonishing overclocker".
It does seem that previous rumours hinting that the fclk could be set to 3000mhz are incorrect, in reality 3000mhz seems to correspond to the RAM and memory controller frequencies (1:1).
Assuming 63ns is achievable (as was pointed out at the recent AMD event) on Zen 4 + DDR5 6000 MT/s modules, this is only a little higher than the typical latency on Zen 3 + DDR4 (~60ns), mentioned here:
https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/luke-hill/amd-ryzen-9-5950x-zen-3-cpu-review/9/
Wonder how long it will be, before people are hitting 60ns with Zen 4? Sounds like it might need tighter DDR5 sub timings, or possibly a higher fclk. Easiest way, might actually be if the memory controller and mclk can be pushed beyond 3000mhz (probably determined by silicon lottery...).
It does seem as though low latencies on DDR5 systems are possible, as shown here:
youtu.be
~47ns with the RAM clocked at 7200 MT/s, so I think you might need at least 7000 MT/s to achieve similar latencies on Zen 4, which could only be achieved with overclocked modules at present (so, no guarantee of stability or reasonable RAM temps).
https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/luke-hill/amd-ryzen-9-5950x-zen-3-cpu-review/9/
Wonder how long it will be, before people are hitting 60ns with Zen 4? Sounds like it might need tighter DDR5 sub timings, or possibly a higher fclk. Easiest way, might actually be if the memory controller and mclk can be pushed beyond 3000mhz (probably determined by silicon lottery...).
It does seem as though low latencies on DDR5 systems are possible, as shown here:
DDR5 Stable OC : 7200Mhz CL30 (12900K all cores (P+E))
[Some points of this OC setup]- Ram stability testing program called 'Karhu' used, which is not a free program From my experience, Karhu is harder to pass ...
youtu.be
~47ns with the RAM clocked at 7200 MT/s, so I think you might need at least 7000 MT/s to achieve similar latencies on Zen 4, which could only be achieved with overclocked modules at present (so, no guarantee of stability or reasonable RAM temps).
Soldato
Even at 6000c30 you get 51ns of latency on a 12900kAssuming 63ns is achievable (as was pointed out at the recent AMD event) on Zen 4 + DDR5 6000 MT/s modules, this is only a little higher than the typical latency on Zen 3 + DDR4 (~60ns), mentioned here:
https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/luke-hill/amd-ryzen-9-5950x-zen-3-cpu-review/9/
Wonder how long it will be, before people are hitting 60ns with Zen 4? Sounds like it might need tighter DDR5 sub timings, or possibly a higher fclk. Easiest way, might actually be if the memory controller and mclk can be pushed beyond 3000mhz (probably determined by silicon lottery...).
It does seem as though low latencies on DDR5 systems are possible, as shown here:
DDR5 Stable OC : 7200Mhz CL30 (12900K all cores (P+E))
[Some points of this OC setup]- Ram stability testing program called 'Karhu' used, which is not a free program From my experience, Karhu is harder to pass ...
~47ns with the RAM clocked at 7200 MT/s, so I think you might need at least 7000 MT/s to achieve similar latencies on Zen 4, which could only be achieved with overclocked modules at present (so, no guarantee of stability or reasonable RAM temps).
Hopefully, the higher latency won't be an issue on Zen 4 then. Still, would be nice to get it to similar levels to Zen 3. I wonder if it's the fclk running at ~2000mhz, that leads to the latency increase vs Zen 3?
Does 60ns of latency on Zen 3 ever actually lead to any perceptible performance issues in real time tasks like games, or maybe audio playback?
Does 60ns of latency on Zen 3 ever actually lead to any perceptible performance issues in real time tasks like games, or maybe audio playback?
Associate
- Joined
- 7 Nov 2017
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doesn't actually mean anything to me. unless there is evidence to show I'll wait for actual reviews.
This is always put out of proportion. Reminder that these values are ns. High tier audio monitoring programs like latencymon work in microseconds.
1ns = 0.001 microsecond
60 ns = 0.060 microseconds
Anything below 400 microseconds is considered imperceptible for any kind of content. That's 400ns. The latency of the CPU could double to ~120ns and it still wouldn't matter. I don't remember when latencymon starts saying your system might have trouble processing real time stuff but it's around 700 microseconds if I'm not mistaken.