*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

AM4 boards are not SOC.

Zen is an SOC according to rumours,so has all the important bits integrated onboard(apart from a GPU) - the lower end motherboards have no actual chipset. The same with AM1 - the chips are an SOC,so the motherboard has virtually no additional functionality and acts as a holder for the ports and any additional chips are there for extra functionality. Its also the same with Bristol Ridge and Carrizo - they are a one chip solution.

Here is a picture of a Carrizo based motherboard in an HP OEM system:

http://support.hp.com/my-en/document/c04686592

The chipset on this motherboard is combined with the processor into a single integrated circuit called System on a Chip (SoC). This technology combines the processor and chipset functionality into a single physical package.

The higher end ones motherboards for AM4 have a depreciated chipset which adds extra functionality to the system.

It will still be rather weird if Zen actually goes the whole hog and has BIOS functionality on-board the CPU,but it would make motherboards very cheap for companies and might entice them to do more AMD specific ones.

However,it would mean AMD needs to be responsible for keeping compatability with newer hardware up to date OFC.

OTH,the rumour might probably be not true.

 

[AthlonXP1800]

GPU's have a BIOS.
Why can't a CPU?

Not that I personally believe anything. A £300 pound 5960X is lol.

No GPU do not have BIOS, it did not store BIOS on GPU so BIOS are stored on EEPROM chips on back of graphic cards but I am not so sure which chips on back of GTX 1070, GTX 1060 etc because EEPROM chips are now getting really so very tiny to see on new graphic cards.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id-2235297/locate-vga-eeprom-chip.html

Spoiler

Above is a pic of Radeon HD 7970, it has 4 EEPROM chips on back of card marked in 4 red squares.

 

[h4rm0ny]

So it appears at best we can hope for is AMD matching Intels offerings? Nothing close to beating Intel. Well depends on price then i guess lol.

Was that ever not true? The only people hyping up Zen as supposedly some kind of Intel killer in terms of performance seem to be people who want to damn it for not being such afterwards.

Server market is the key market for AMD and the true focus of Zen. If they can deliver on that, then Zen will be a success for AMD. It's also the initial launch. They are likely to have many iterative improvements on Zen just as Intel has had with its current architecture.

 

[AthlonXP1800]

http://dresdenboy.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/leaked-zennaples-benchmarks-appeared-in.html

New dual Zen 32 core Naples benchmark leaked this time with Sisoftware, scored 643.37Mpix/s in CPU multi media.

http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_s...d5e0c6ae93a680f8c5f4d2b7d2efdff98ab786b0&l=en

It as fast as 4 years old dual Xeon E5 2670 8C CPUs at 2.6GHz based on 32nm Sandy Bridge.

http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_r...d5e3d6e0d8e0d0f684b989afcaaf92a284f7cafa&l=en

Or as fast as a 2 years old single Xeon E5-2699 V3 18C CPU at 3.6GHz based on 22nm Ivy Bridge.

http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_r...d5e3d3e4dceeddfb89b484a2c7a29faf89fac7f7&l=en

 

[Bonjour]

Not bad at all. Those E5s are hella chips.

 

[jigger]

http://dresdenboy.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/leaked-zennaples-benchmarks-appeared-in.html

New dual Zen 32 core Naples benchmark leaked this time with Sisoftware, scored 643.37Mpix/s in CPU multi media.

http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_s...d5e0c6ae93a680f8c5f4d2b7d2efdff98ab786b0&l=en

It as fast as 4 years old dual Xeon E5 2670 8C CPUs at 2.6GHz based on 32nm Sandy Bridge.

http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_r...d5e3d6e0d8e0d0f684b989afcaaf92a284f7cafa&l=en

Or as fast as a 2 years old single Xeon E5-2699 V3 18C CPU at 3.6GHz based on 22nm Ivy Bridge.

http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_r...d5e3d3e4dceeddfb89b484a2c7a29faf89fac7f7&l=en

Well that test shows whatever this system is using is as fast as Intel 3.6Ghz 18 core 32 thread at 1.4Ghz. That's almost a factor of three clock speed deficit.

I'm not sure on the on chip whispers. Bristrol Ridge chips will need a BIOS and the AM4 board seem you have a chipset with a HSF.

 

[Jumper118]

Spoiler

Legit

 

[humbug]

http://dresdenboy.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/leaked-zennaples-benchmarks-appeared-in.html

New dual Zen 32 core Naples benchmark leaked this time with Sisoftware, scored 643.37Mpix/s in CPU multi media.

http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_s...d5e0c6ae93a680f8c5f4d2b7d2efdff98ab786b0&l=en

It as fast as 4 years old dual Xeon E5 2670 8C CPUs at 2.6GHz based on 32nm Sandy Bridge.

http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_r...d5e3d6e0d8e0d0f684b989afcaaf92a284f7cafa&l=en

Or as fast as a 2 years old single Xeon E5-2699 V3 18C CPU at 3.6GHz based on 22nm Ivy Bridge.

http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_r...d5e3d3e4dceeddfb89b484a2c7a29faf89fac7f7&l=en

Surly you didn't put that there to try and use it to say how slow Zen is? Yes the 32 Core Zen is about as fast as the 18 core Ivy Bridge at 3.6Ghz, what you failed to say in all that you did say is that Zen in that is running at 1.44Ghz.
Do the maths, 18 cores @ 3.6Ghz vs 32 cores at 1.4Ghz, thats 78% more cores on the Zen chip vs 150% higher clock rate on the Intel chip and they score about the same, you know what that is, thats Zen with significantly higher IPC.

 

[Angilion]

They ain't going to sell chips that are basically unstable and don't work so the fix will be in place.

And if as you read it 'only as fast as Intel without the fix' then as it will be sold with the fix the performance will be 40% less than Intel, which is not anything like good enough to even consider putting on the market, its only roughly about as fast as their existing FX CPU's, or a bit more.

Now, either there is something very wrong with that premiss, or there is something very wrong with the chip and AMD don't really have a product at all.

If the previous text is true, I would assume that the plan is to fix the bug before selling the chips. Bugs in engineering samples won't necessarily be in the chips that are sold. It would be ridiculous for AMD to mass produce chips with such a serious bug and put them on the market. The people at a decision-making level would have to be off their heads to sign off on that.

 

[r7slayer]

Was that ever not true? The only people hyping up Zen as supposedly some kind of Intel killer in terms of performance seem to be people who want to damn it for not being such afterwards.

Server market is the key market for AMD and the true focus of Zen. If they can deliver on that, then Zen will be a success for AMD. It's also the initial launch. They are likely to have many iterative improvements on Zen just as Intel has had with its current architecture.

AMD did it before so i guess that's where the hope was coming from. They got in a well know architecture design guy can't remember his name (Not that well known to me haha)
And build it from the ground up. I guess i was expecting it to beat intel by a small margin with intel beating the AMD chip at some things and AMD beating intel at some things. But just seems more likely AMD will be just snapping at the heels. I guess it could just be a starting point for AMD and could get better refinements. Happens all the time with new archs.

 

[Angilion]

this all day.

look at 8 core amd cpus when released still slower than 4 core intel.the product is still not being shouted about.its gunna sit in its usual position and place.bargin.

if it was faster they would have priced it higher . price is key to the speed. it tells all.

Probably but not necessarily. AMD's market share in CPUs is pretty small. They might sell chips with a much better than expected price/performance ratio in order to increase market share. Lower profit margins per chip in order to increase the number of chips sold. It's not impossible that AMD might take that course of action. A small share at the bottom end of the market doesn't look like a good long-term position when computers other than PCs are increasingly capable of doing well enough at the bottom end of the market.

 

[jigger]

Spoiler

Legit

It's on the internet. Haz 2 b tru.

 

[Gimpymoo]

Remember when AMD were price/performance king?

I am looking at you San Diego

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Remember when AMD were price/performance king?

I am looking at you San Diego

A £60 Athlon II X3 unlocking to a Phenom II X4 with all the L3 cache was pretty awesome for my mate when we did their build!

 

[RavenXXX2]

Intel to release an unlocked Kaby Lake Core i3 desktop CPU

Intel unleashing unlocked i3 at $180, zen is getting to them lol. Seriously though $180 for an i3, what a joke. Competition can't come soon enough.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/99205-intel-release-unlocked-kaby-lake-core-i3-desktop-cpu/

 

[Dave2150]

Intel unleashing unlocked i3 at $180, zen is getting to them lol. Seriously though $180 for an i3, what a joke. Competition can't come soon enough.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/99205-intel-release-unlocked-kaby-lake-core-i3-desktop-cpu/

That I3 clocked to 5Ghz+ (something kabylake is capable of) will probably annihilate Zen anyway.

 

[RavenXXX2]

Nope, keep making **** up.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

You would need to be an utter mug to buy a £171 Core i3 when the a KL Core i5 is barely £20 more,and you would need a cooler and more expensive motherboard for the Core i3.

Also,BF1 says HIIIIIIIIIII!!

 

[Bonjour]

That I3 clocked to 5Ghz+ (something kabylake is capable of) will probably annihilate Zen anyway.

At what, exactly? Nothing even remotely optimised for multiple threads.

 

[humbug]

£170 for a dual core ?????????????

That's ###### insane!