*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[humbug]

many mistakes there is about performance...Vishera is example very good in integer performance, FP is not all also. Depends at how the program is writed. We can look today clock to clock at PHenom II vs Vishera. Most people thinking, Phenom II is better clock to clock at one core. But its not true. In many single thread application is Vishera better than Phenom II and also old Trinity chips are a bit better than Phenoms II. One test few years ago did Tomshardware as proof.
Of course, old 1994 benchamrk Superpi doenst mean real 1 core performance and clock to clock there will be PII better.

+1 read this.

Clock for clock the FX-8350 is on average 13% faster than the Phenom II x6 in Games, reasonably achievable overclocks for both CPU's has the FX-8350 more than 20% ahead.

In compression and video encoding the FX-8350's performance delta to the X6 1090T is just a good, with +40 and +15% clock for clock, and 50% to 30% overclocked.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18604818

 

[LoadsaMoney]

Jim Kellers gone to work on Nvidia gear, for Tesla.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Almost certainly not, for one thing they use Nvidia for entertainment stuff and most of the car makers who were doing so appear to have moved to other chips for their next announced cars. Second, he's a chip architect, full stop, that is his job. He spend 2-4 years somewhere creating a new chip, takes a long holiday then gets another hefty contract for another chip elsewhere.

Him going to Tesla would indicate another loss for Nvidia as them hiring Keller and him being interested in the job suggests they want him to create chips for their cars. You'd figure almost certainly some kind of ARM ISA based new architecture.

The chances he'd sit around at Tesla and buy Nvidia(or anyone else) chips for cars are like 0-0.0001%. More chance of him being employed by Tesla to work with AMD creating a semi custom chip and maybe making several other HSA compatible chips to include than him doing anything with Nvidia chips as Keller would be almost the ideal guy for that kind of collaboration while Nvidia don't do semi custom, don't do HSA and don't work well for others so wouldn't go with a joint venture for a new chip.

 

[Orangey]

His new job is autopilot systems.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Yup, I'd be surprised if his job wasn't coming up with a chip to run autopilot systems. Today cars are getting driver assist, people are talking about 2020 for fully autodriving cars, as in designed with that as primary purpose. That fits in pretty well with getting a guy like Keller 4-5 year out. 2-3 years to come up with something then a couple years in production before they start shipping final cars.

 

[Dave2150]

Skylake is a very small upgrade to Haswell, so even if Zen doesn't beat Haswell it'll still be EXTREMELY compelling (price and motherboard features dependant of course)

This is a common misconception.

Skylake can be a decent upgrade to Haswell, in games that are entirely dependant on IPC.

Watch the example video below, where the Skylake CPU is clocked 300Mhz LOWER than the Haswell, yet has a healthy margin over it in quite a few titles:

 

[StriderX]

Please stop using the crappiest (optimized) game ever to prove the point.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Test of the new AMD stock cooler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocvZt3ATIl8

I suspect these will come with Zen and look a good improvement over the older ones.

 

[jigger]

Looks good and save me picking up the usual "cheapish" but better than stock after market cooler with every CPU purchase.

 

[flopper]

This is a common misconception.

Skylake can be a decent upgrade to Haswell, in games that are entirely dependant on IPC.

use default speed to compare.
or else its skewed.
AMD for example are superb if you stream on twitch the same time.

still the stairway to heaven Zen cpu Zeppelin seems to shape up nicely.
we are emerging with Dx12 which means the removal of the ipc for games will vanish and any advantage Intel had or has will go up in smoke.
ipc then wont be a factor for gaming anymore.

So whatever Zen delivers for a gamer which is frankly the main reason you or anyone else buy a computer or cpu for then AMD simply will be not only a viable choice but the go to solution for any gamer with DX12 engines.

For the gamers and users this is superb news.

 

[AllBodies]

we are emerging with Dx12 which means the removal of the ipc for games will vanish and any advantage Intel had or has will go up in smoke.
ipc then wont be a factor for gaming anymore.

This remains to be seen, since instead developers could use the freed-up CPU overhead to make their games more complex.

This is like saying you'll never need to upgrade your GPU if your current one can run current games at 1080p max settings.

 

[Dave2150]

Please stop using the crappiest (optimized) game ever to prove the point.

Err, there's 10 games in that video. You claim they all don't count because they are "crappy"? Spoken like a child.

 

[Mauller]

we are emerging with Dx12 which means the removal of the ipc for games will vanish and any advantage Intel had or has will go up in smoke. ipc then wont be a factor for gaming anymore.

IPC is still a factor in game performance. It just depends on the game and the complexity of it.

Taking RTS games for example, even with Low Abstraction API's the majority of the workload is AI calculation.

With the CPU now freed more in FPS games, they could increase complexity of the AI or physics interactions.

The move to Low abstraction API's does free up CPU cycles for more useful things, but IPC will always be a factor.

 

[h4rm0ny]

So whatever Zen delivers for a gamer which is frankly the main reason you or anyone else buy a computer or cpu for then

I use my PC for development work. Others use it for graphics rendering, movie editing and numerous other things. Whilst most here are probably buying this stuff for gaming purposes, lots of people have other reasons. The above statement is false.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Another example of AMD PR screwing up AGAIN:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10000/who-controls-user-experience-amd-carrizo-thoroughly-tested

We had four Carrizo devices on hand to test for a week, along with a single Kaveri system. These devices were sourced by AMD, and I put in requests for a variety of price points, hardware configurations and styles, along with some specific testing equipment to which we don’t have access.

All the Carrizo laptops which were sent out were running in single channel and the Kaveri system in dual channel.

What a joke!!

It also appears some of the Carrizo laptops still run their RAM in single channel even if two DIMMs are used,if the OEM has skimped on the motherboard.

It appears that laptop is an early prototype so probably why it had issues:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38012067&postcount=114

LMAO,so not only do they not configure the laptops they send probably,one of the models is not even a production equivalent example which probably lacks the issues AT encountered.

It makes me somewhat worried once AMD release the Zen APUs they will screw up some way.

They not only need to work harder with OEM to make sure there are better laptops with AMD CPUs in them,they need to make sure they actually send laptops for review which are properly configured.

 

[Martini1991]

AMD are always screwing up.

Remember when they showed project Quantum?

WHAT WAS THE POINT.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Another example of AMD PR screwing up AGAIN:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10000/who-controls-user-experience-amd-carrizo-thoroughly-tested

All the Carrizo laptops which were sent out were running in single channel and the Kaveri system in dual channel.

What a joke!!

Way to pull stuff out of context. I read that Anandtech article earlier (yes, all 20 pages of it). One of the main thrusts of the article was that AMD don't have enough influence with the OEMs to get their chips put in laptops with decent hardware because of the market pressure to race to the bottom. How you spun this into what you did, I don't know, because the article is pretty much saying the opposite.

Article: Carrizo is a decent chip but OEMs cripple it by demanding it be limited to the 15W features to simplify design for themselves and nearly all we could get hold of was single channel memory laptops which hold it back from its potential in a big way.
You: AMD PR screws up!!!!

AMD's PR department is responsible for OEM laptop designs, now?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Way to pull stuff out of context. I read that Anandtech article earlier (yes, all 20 pages of it). One of the main thrusts of the article was that AMD don't have enough influence with the OEMs to get their chips put in laptops with decent hardware because of the market pressure to race to the bottom. How you spun this into what you did, I don't know, because the article is pretty much saying the opposite.

Article: Carrizo is a decent chip but OEMs cripple it by demanding it be limited to the 15W features to simplify design for themselves and nearly all we could get hold of was single channel memory laptops which hold it back from its potential in a big way.
You: AMD PR screws up!!!!

AMD's PR department is responsible for OEM laptop designs, now?

AMD's PR department is responsible for sending stuff for reviews:

We had four Carrizo devices on hand to test for a week, along with a single Kaveri system. These devices were sourced by AMD, and I put in requests for a variety of price points, hardware configurations and styles, along with some specific testing equipment to which we don’t have access.

So they send out a Kaveri laptop with dual channel RAM. Then all the Carrizo laptops sent out have SINGLE CHANNEL RAM.

Yet,all those laptops can be configured with DUAL CHANNEL RAM if you buy them.

AMD PR department is so sloppy that they could not even bother to send out ONE Carrizo laptop with dual channel RAM.

Also,supposedly the Lenovo had issues trying to run dual channel RAM:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38012067&postcount=114

Look at the link carefully. AMD PR was so lazy they sent out a pre-production version of the laptop.

Production laptops have a different PCB and BIOS,probably meaning they don't have the issues the AMD supplied example had.

People on this forum know very well I will defend AMD from unfair criticisms but its a joke. Even on AT forums,some of most pro-AMD people are just disgusted by how AMD PR just is sloppy.

Then last week,CD uses TressFX to build Purehair on and there is not a single mention of it by AMD PR in an official press release(apart from a vague twitter post) and Nvidia mocks AMD by patting CD on the back for how good Purehair is in an offical release on their website.

AMD PR are inept and they end up making their products half the time look worse than they are in reality.

 

[Orangey]

AMD are always screwing up.

Remember when they showed project Quantum?

WHAT WAS THE POINT.

It was a concept car.

 

[Martini1991]

It was a concept car.

Pointless.