*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[SiDeards73]

If its near haswell performance at stock, is cooler than a Haswell, then they can have my money. Would gladly trade in my Haswell for a small performance hit if the Zen was a lot cooler as it would allow a decent overclock to compensate

Im itching to get back on an AMD cpu, something tells me AMD have an ace up their sleeves with this CPU, have 8 real cores may be better under DX12 as well. Comparing the existing stuff isnt good as we all know faildozer was terribad, hopefully the Zen series will hark back to the old Athlon days

 

[ubersonic]

It's £870 for Intels Haswell-E 8 core, even if Zen isn't quite as fast per core, if they deliver an 8 core thats faster per core than IB-E and costs FX money then they are on to a massive winner.

 

[Martini1991]

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Even if they can get 3930K performance, I can't see it coming across at anywhere near current FX pricing. The whole CPU landscape would be turned on its head over night.
It's got potential.

 

[Boomstick777]

Got a look at the roadmap, AMD coming out guns blazing in 2016. 8 core Zen CPU and 4 core Zen with updated GCN APU. Nay sayers were saying AMD wouldn't have traditional CPU parts, well there ya go. 8 core CPU for desktop, and separate APU line. This is good stuff.

Got a good feeling about these, red team is gonna come good next year. Want to see them do well again.

 

[cheesyboy]

If we're talking Ivybridge+ IPC, with 8 cores and hyperthreading, then I'd expect a pricetag in excess of the mainstream i7s.

If the APUs also have hyperthreading, then you'd be getting 3770k performance with perhaps a 250x (7770) strapped on board. I'd imagine they would charge approaching £200 for something like that.

Basically, I'd expect the APUs will come in at around Bulldozer launch prices, whilst the Big octo-core will be up with the lower end of Intel's Extreme line, or if we're lucky at mainstream i7 pricing.

 

[Dave2150]

Got a look at the roadmap, AMD coming out guns blazing in 2016. 8 core Zen CPU and 4 core Zen with updated GCN APU. Nay sayers were saying AMD wouldn't have traditional CPU parts, well there ya go. 8 core CPU for desktop, and separate APU line. This is good stuff.

Got a good feeling about these, red team is gonna come good next year. Want to see them do well again.

Fingers crossed Zen is amazing, though it's such a long way away that it's rather futile to discuss at length imo.

We're talking late 2016 for the planned launch - it will almost certainly be delayed to 2017, as most new chips are these days (take a look at Intel's 14nm for an example, Broadwell cancelled for desktop due to delays etc).

 

[ubersonic]

Even if they can get 3930K performance, I can't see it coming across at anywhere near current FX pricing.

If we're talking Ivybridge+ IPC, with 8 cores and hyperthreading, then I'd expect a pricetag in excess of the mainstream i7s.

Sadly you guys are right, my head was so full of Athlon XP and Phenom price/performance figures I forgot about this lol:

And no this isn't a photoshop, the RRP was £700 before AMD realised nobody was going to pay 3960X money for an overclocked FX-8 lol.

 

[Martini1991]

Yeah. I remember the price if them, it was lol tastic. The 9590 is now like 170 isn't it?
Bulldozer was 250 quid when it launched too, but an i7 smashed it.

AMD have their price as it is due to a pposition of weakness. Not because they're good guys.

Again. No one really knows how this will play out, so I'm optimistic

 

[mnc fear]

I think they are good guys Martini

 

[SiDeards73]

If it arrives and its around the performance of my 4770k, then they cannot justify charging more for it, as the Intel Option would always be better. If its faster then sure charge more, but i suspect its going to be within 3% of the Haswell if true, which means no one is going to pay more for a lesser performing chip.

AMD are cheap for a reason as pointed out, their products have largely been inferior for a good while, charging over the odds for products that are not anywhere near competitive is laughable

 

[cheesyboy]

If it arrives and its around the performance of my 4770k, then they cannot justify charging more for it, as the Intel Option would always be better. If its faster then sure charge more, but i suspect its going to be within 3% of the Haswell if true, which means no one is going to pay more for a lesser performing chip.

AMD are cheap for a reason as pointed out, their products have largely been inferior for a good while, charging over the odds for products that are not anywhere near competitive is laughable

The big one is 8-core, 16 thread remember. If* it's matching Ivybridge IPC, and has similar clocks, then it will absolutely bury a 4770k in threaded tasks, and be a little behind in lower-threaded stuff. All other things being equal.

* that's a big "if"

 

[SiDeards73]

The big one is 8-core, 16 thread remember. If* it's matching Ivybridge IPC, and has similar clocks, then it will absolutely bury a 4770k in threaded tasks, and be a little behind in lower-threaded stuff. All other things being equal.

* that's a big "if"

Ahhh i was thinking it was just going to be equal to the 4770, well if its 16 threads then yeah it will stomp all over my 4770k.

I dont mind paying more for that, thats for sure

 

[Martini1991]

That's the thing, it's all unknowns.

With 8 cores, all they need is lynnfield IPC that does 4.8GHZ and they've got a chip and a half on their hands. Any better than that and it really throws a curveball.

At Lynnfield IPC, there's a reason to go Intel still (Although far far less) but if it's any better? It becomes justifying an Intel buy hard, to basically pointless.

I'm optimistic, but at the same time, I can't see AMD changing the landscape over night.

If maxed out it can only match a maxed out 4770K, then it's kinda meh for me, as it's performance would still be situation dependant.

 

[Boomstick777]

Yeah. I remember the price if them, it was lol tastic. The 9590 is now like 170 isn't it?
Bulldozer was 250 quid when it launched too, but an i7 smashed it.

AMD have their price as it is due to a pposition of weakness. Not because they're good guys.

Again. No one really knows how this will play out, so I'm optimistic

+1

AMD will charge high prices if they think they can. Fair enough.

I'm optimistic about Zen as well, Jim Keller knows his stuff.

"AMD are on track to catch up on high performance cores"

- Jim Keller, Corporate Vice President and Chief Architect of AMD's Microprocessor Cores

With a competitive AMD and Windows that doesn't flop I think PC space could see growth in 2016+

 

[SiDeards73]

+1

AMD will charge high prices if they think they can. Fair enough.

I'm optimistic about Zen as well, Jim Keller knows his stuff.



With a competitive AMD and Windows that doesn't flop I think PC space could see growth in 2016+

I think you are right Boom, DX12 will be a massive game changer as well if used correctly.

Something i was thinking earlier, AMD probably developed gaming orientated hardware to make the most from stuff like Mantle etc going forward as this was their intended plan until MS got enough nudges to make DX12, with that in mind i wonder if the delays on some hardware was to redesign slightly in some areas to make more use of this new API? obviously im only talking about gaming orientated stuff, nothing else.

 

[Boomstick777]

I think you are right Boom, DX12 will be a massive game changer as well if used correctly.

Something i was thinking earlier, AMD probably developed gaming orientated hardware to make the most from stuff like Mantle etc going forward as this was their intended plan until MS got enough nudges to make DX12, with that in mind i wonder if the delays on some hardware was to redesign slightly in some areas to make more use of this new API? obviously im only talking about gaming orientated stuff, nothing else.

Yeah not just that, but with GPU's also timed close to the actual Windows 10 launch this year. Windows 10 drops and AMD have all these new products to go with it, not a bad idea. Just a shame that the more hardcore AMD buyer has been left out in the cold in the meantime, been a long time for new AMD hardware.

With the budget I do think AMD do really well, there fighting two big battles with less budget then the guys they are battling. I really hope they come out strong next year. Happily give them money for decent products, they just need to deliver something worthy. I think they will.

 

[Orangey]

Apparently the slides were fake but we will know in a couple of days at the investor day.

 

[Gazb]

If AMD manage Bloomfield IPC performance with Zen, in a cooler, lower powered package with 8 cores then I reckon they'll do well. (Assuming they don't price it crazily, and it's clocked higher than 2Ghz)

Bloomfield IPC isn't hugely worse than Haswell, and Intel are charging a big premium if you want to have more than 4 cores.

Other technologies like hUMA and offloading floating point calculations to the iGPU are features we need to see being used too.

 

[Orangey]

AMD Financial analyst day May 6th

http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-eventDetails&EventId=5183242

Word is info will be forthcoming?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

This is the article which confirmed the roadmap is fake:
https://translate.google.co.uk/tran...chen-roadmap-genauer-beleuchtet/&edit-text=\\