And boomers wonder why millennials are bitter towards them..

[FoxEye]

I'd like to see that quote please otherwise apologise for lying.

I have never ever said that.

I'm all for their rights. In fact they have a lot of rights where I am based. I am a properly fully registered landlord within each district council and for each individual property.

I fully expect you now to ignore your mistake and forget to apologise. Which shows renters like yourself are extremely selfish beings who don't care about the facts.

In fact I owe you an apology in this instance, and offer it now. Here is the quote I was remembering:

This sort of comment is just madness and is quite annoying as someone who has sunk a very large proportion of my families money into property.

The house which a tenant rents is not their house, it is the owners house. If i want one of my properties back, then i will have it back, it is mine, it is not my tenants and i would expect that tenant to leave should i ever want it, within the bounds of the AST. There is this constant narrative that a tenant should somehow have some rights over a property beyond privacy within their tenancy period. Why should they?, again, it is not their property, it is the owners! I will also reserve the right to charge whatever i like for the use of my property - it is mine, bought with my money, it is no more the tenants than my own residential house, cars, or anything else is. The tenant can refuse to pay, that on the flip side is absolutely their prerogative.

Not sure what you mean about tax rates either, income derived from property is already taxed at your marginal rate if taken personally.

I had attributed this to you but having searched the thread it wasn't you at all.

Sorry.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

In fact I owe you an apology in this instance, and offer it now. Here is the quote I was remembering:



I had attributed this to you but having searched the thread it wasn't you at all.

Sorry.

Accepted.

I treat all my tenants fairly so long as they are up to date with their rent.

If they have an issue with anything my agent has the discretion to fix it so long as it costs less than my agreed limit anything above that he has to come to me and I address it or give my agent authorisation.

After all tenants are my customers and therefore it's in my interest for them to be happy with the property and the situation.

Yes issues do occur and a lot more often than I'd like but it's usually due to a tenant not looking after appliances like cookers or smoking inside the property ruining well everything due to the smell and smoke.

If someone rents a property it's their property to use during the agreement however they aren't free to do what they like for example they can't start drilling holes in walls, etc without permission.

As for kicking someone out. I would never do that unless they aren't up to date with their rent. However that again is a big issue. A lot of folk withold rent for dumb issues they themselves have caused. It's why getting the right tenant in is very important rather than just getting anybody in. Doing the proper checks before letting them in is extremely important and saves a lot of hassle long term.

If I owned a shop I wouldn't abuse my customers who buy from me and therefore it's no different an ethos when it comes to tenants.

 

[Rofflay]

Indeed I was paying £200 a day 20 years ago for a **** hot plasterer. Nowadays it will be around £400 a day for a really good decent one. Good bricklayers round here earn £80k to £100k. I just dont see why a binman should get the same and if he did, how would it get paid?

This was in NI wages here and house prices are much lower but oddly all goods like stuff from OCUK costs the same Binmen perform essential duties heres the whole kicker about your theory. You want to pay rubbish wages and people simply refuse to do it. The result? Immigration to entice people who accept being shafted because it is better than Africa. I covered this before where he only does it for lifetime but his family stay forever and his children will want better jobs so again comes the circle of next generation inporting another binman. You are killing your own society


At least the previous generations were smarter and knew this, Ships existed and land routes around medieval times yet it was extremely rare to see some outsider taking care of your crap. Indeed the night soil man was one of best paid jobs going. Being that there was demand for human waste and no sewerage typically a man and a young boy would come along in the cart and collect it and sell it to farmers. How much did he get paid? About a months salary for a peasant he would earn in a week. A sought after job yet you view binmen as some kind of lower class.


I always said, Capitalism and this attitude is unpatriotic and actually an eater of society. I just told you the process of how it is sort of a human flesh pyramid that relys on importing low wage workers just to please people who do not want wage parity because it will not benefit them. But i wonder will it in future? If the trend keeps going a lot of POC renters will turn on white landlords and accuse them of another form of slavery. Just wait mark my words on that!

 

[silversurfer]

£3000 for a detached 3 bed house on a cul de sac in 1971, interest rates 3% rising to 15% by end of the decade and wages was about 1k a year apparently. Just some bitterness fodder I acquired for anyone running low

 

[Greebo]

This was in NI wages here and house prices are much lower but oddly all goods like stuff from OCUK costs the same Binmen perform essential duties heres the whole kicker about your theory. You want to pay rubbish wages and people simply refuse to do it. The result? Immigration to entice people who accept being shafted because it is better than Africa. I covered this before where he only does it for lifetime but his family stay forever and his children will want better jobs so again comes the circle of next generation inporting another binman. You are killing your own society


At least the previous generations were smarter and knew this, Ships existed and land routes around medieval times yet it was extremely rare to see some outsider taking care of your crap. Indeed the night soil man was one of best paid jobs going. Being that there was demand for human waste and no sewerage typically a man and a young boy would come along in the cart and collect it and sell it to farmers. How much did he get paid? About a months salary for a peasant he would earn in a week. A sought after job yet you view binmen as some kind of lower class.


I always said, Capitalism and this attitude is unpatriotic and actually an eater of society. I just told you the process of how it is sort of a human flesh pyramid that relys on importing low wage workers just to please people who do not want wage parity because it will not benefit them. But i wonder will it in future? If the trend keeps going a lot of POC renters will turn on white landlords and accuse them of another form of slavery. Just wait mark my words on that!

The problem is the country cant afford to pay bin men £80k-100k per year or are you saying no matter what job you do then it should all be the same wages? So your local GP gets paid the same as the bin men? The CEO of a FTSE 100 company gets paid the same as well? Care workers would be on the same as well I assume?

Why spend 5 years at med school rolling up £150k of debt and then 2 years working 80 hours a week to become a doctor if you can go get the same money collecting bins?

The intent is admirable but just wouldn't work. The figures just dont stack up. Council tax bills and care would end up costing 5 fold. The price of food would sky rocket as all the supermarket workers and delivery drivers would all be on £80k to £100k.

Unless you had zero immigration people would try to flock to this country in order to earn up to £100k stacking shelves. In fact doctors from other countries would try to come here to not work as a doctor and earn the big money.

So bringing wages of bin men up to parity with bricklayers just wouldnt work. How about we increase bin men wages and decrease bricklayers to they meet in middle around £50k then? Again big increases in the costs of everything although not as bad as before but then you get a massive drain of all the most skilled and brightest people as they leave the UK to go earn £100k for their job when its capped at £50k in the UK.

 

[Haggisman]

At least the previous generations were smarter and knew this, Ships existed and land routes around medieval times yet it was extremely rare to see some outsider taking care of your crap. Indeed the night soil man was one of best paid jobs going. Being that there was demand for human waste and no sewerage typically a man and a young boy would come along in the cart and collect it and sell it to farmers. How much did he get paid? About a months salary for a peasant he would earn in a week. A sought after job yet you view binmen as some kind of lower class.

What a load of drivel. It's nothing to do with viewing anyone as "some kind of lower class" and everything to do with skilled vs unskilled work. You could pick a random person off the street, give them a high-vis jacket and a few hours training on how to use the lorry without killing themselves, and they will be able to do the job almost as well as someone who has been doing it for years. I'd like to see the results if you gave that same random person a bucket of muck and a trowel and and told them to go plaster a house (hint, there's going to be a massive difference in both the quality of the finish and the time it actually takes between someone who's been doing the job a day vs someone doing who's been doing it a decade)

If you're saying you can't see the difference, then either you need a healthy dose of reality, or you're being rather disingenuous...

 

[fez]

The problem is the country cant afford to pay bin men £80k-100k per year or are you saying no matter what job you do then it should all be the same wages? So your local GP gets paid the same as the bin men? The CEO of a FTSE 100 company gets paid the same as well? Care workers would be on the same as well I assume?

There has to be a large incentive to train and work in certain careers but I think the brain drain argument isn't that good. As long as you pay people well, you don't have to pay them silly money. We have a lot of very intelligent people in this country who are doing very poorly paid jobs. Money isn't everything to everyone. I think there should be some sort of limit to what people can earn before insane taxation hits but I think that figure should be something like £500k/year.

The bigger issue is that we are not paying people at the bottom enough money. There can be no justification for people being as wealthy as Jeff Bezos while other people who work full time are barely earning enough to scrap by. Years ago, if you wanted to amass a fortune it would be built on the back of tangible produce in general. You would have assets, you would have to grow those physical assets. New we are replacing human workers in so many areas and creating wealth from automation and code and all that money is going straight into the hands of a very small group of people.

There has to be a reset button somewhere that spreads the wealth out because currently far too few people own far far far too much of it.

Oh and to people saying that the skill of a job dictates salary, thats BS. The wealth of the sector determines your salary. Thats why someone working as a programmer for a non-profit could easily be on 1/10th of what they are on working for a bank. There comes a point quite quickly where you cannot justify paying someone X vs someone else Y based on the skill of a job. Intelligence is not something you have a choice about either. Work ethic? Yes. Intelligence? No.

You will find that the brightest and best in society are quite often not earning crazy money even working in the most intellectual of fields.

 

[BongoHunter]

Bringing the national average salary upto to somewhere near 40K would go a long way toward sorting this out all out. I think pay is just too low in general. Yeah it will increase inflation - but load of households have being going backwards in real terms for years in terms of buying power and it needs correcting.

 

[Lopéz]

But you can't just whack up the national average salary without increasing pay wholesale across the country. And then the costs of operating a business would rocket.

You can't make a single sweeping adjustment like that without it having significant knock on effects elsewhere.

 

[Greebo]

There has to be a large incentive to train and work in certain careers but I think the brain drain argument isn't that good. As long as you pay people well, you don't have to pay them silly money. We have a lot of very intelligent people in this country who are doing very poorly paid jobs. Money isn't everything to everyone. I think there should be some sort of limit to what people can earn before insane taxation hits but I think that figure should be something like £500k/year.

The bigger issue is that we are not paying people at the bottom enough money. There can be no justification for people being as wealthy as Jeff Bezos while other people who work full time are barely earning enough to scrap by. Years ago, if you wanted to amass a fortune it would be built on the back of tangible produce in general. You would have assets, you would have to grow those physical assets. New we are replacing human workers in so many areas and creating wealth from automation and code and all that money is going straight into the hands of a very small group of people.

There has to be a reset button somewhere that spreads the wealth out because currently far too few people own far far far too much of it.

Oh I agree the gap between the lowest paid and highest paid keeps increasing in this country and that is wrong but equally I dont agree you can pay bin men the same as doctors.

But the problem is we keep voting in Governments after Governments whose policies just do the opposite of this and we are a democracy.

I have always liked the idea that companies can only pay the highest member of staff a multiple of the lowest paid or average pay. That I think would be a good way to pull up the lower paid wages.

The other issue is that until something like £30k per annum, employees wages are subsidised by the Govt and hence tax payers in benefits which lets companies off the hook.

Years ago we offered a single mum working for us a promotion and a £5k payrise but she turned it down as she would have lost the same in benefits as her payrise was so would be working more hours and more responsibility for no extra money,

That system is wrong.

 

[BongoHunter]

But you can't just whack up the national average salary without increasing pay wholesale across the country. And then the costs of operating a business would rocket.

You can't make a single sweeping adjustment like that without it having significant knock on effects elsewhere.

If you did something like capping exec pay or bonuses to a multiple of the lowest FTE salary for said company I think you would see wages for workers leap, and you'd only be taking money out of the very top of society.

There's probably other things you could do to without doing too much damage (making London living wage the minimum in South East could be looked at) - there's loads of stuff that could be tried.

 

[Haggisman]

Oh and to people saying that the skill of a job dictates salary, thats BS. The wealth of the sector determines your salary. Thats why someone working as a programmer for a non-profit could easily be on 1/10th of what they are on working for a bank. There comes a point quite quickly where you cannot justify paying someone X vs someone else Y based on the skill of a job. Intelligence is not something you have a choice about either. Work ethic? Yes. Intelligence? No.

You will find that the brightest and best in society are quite often not earning crazy money even working in the most intellectual of fields.

It's not BS at all, of course someone working for a non-profit is going to be earning less than someone doing the same job at e.g. a bank, but to state it's purely down to the sector is nonsense, unless you're suggesting that the cleaner at the bank gets paid the same as the programmer? It's a combination of the 2... There will always be exceptions, but generally, the higher skilled/experienced the position, the higher the pay.

 

[fez]

Oh I agree the gap between the lowest paid and highest paid keeps increasing in this country and that is wrong but equally I dont agree you can pay bin men the same as doctors.

But the problem is we keep voting in Governments after Governments whose policies just do the opposite of this and we are a democracy.

I have always liked the idea that companies can only pay the highest member of staff a multiple of the lowest paid or average pay. That I think would be a good way to pull up the lower paid wages.

The other issue is that until something like £30k per annum, employees wages are subsidised by the Govt and hence tax payers in benefits which lets companies off the hook.

Years ago we offered a single mum working for us a promotion and a £5k payrise but she turned it down as she would have lost the same in benefits as her payrise was so would be working more hours and more responsibility for no extra money,

That system is wrong.

Completely agree with all of that. I don't suggest everyone should be on the same salary but the bottom of the pyramid needs paying more and the top needs paying less. The issue is having a wealthy elite running the country who have less than no interest in implementing policies that will hurt them and their mates. If there is one thing about the current Covid crisis that will be interesting is how these massive multinational companies will justify taking government money to prop themselves up when they are paying massive bonuses as usual. How it is OK for companies to essentially run hand to mouth, paying huge bonuses to execs and shareholders and then take handouts when times are not so good is beyond me.

 

[fez]

It's not BS at all, of course someone working for a non-profit is going to be earning less than someone doing the same job at e.g. a bank, but to state it's purely down to the sector is nonsense, unless you're suggesting that the cleaner at the bank gets paid the same as the programmer? It's a combination of the 2... There will always be exceptions, but generally, the higher skilled/experienced the position, the higher the pay.

Generally within an industry... yes. Generally in society...no.

Explain to me how day traders get paid millions a year vs a theoretical physicist on £50k year. Who do you think is higher skilled, better educated, more intelligent etc. There is not that much logic to salaries beyond the wealth in the industry.

 

[Haggisman]

Generally within an industry... yes. Generally in society...no.

Explain to me how day traders get paid millions a year vs a theoretical physicist on £50k year. Who do you think is higher skilled, better educated, more intelligent etc. There is not that much logic to salaries beyond the wealth in the industry.

As I said, it's a combination between the 2 (the lab assistant isn't getting paid the same as the theoretical physicist), and there are always exceptions - the financial sector being one of the worst, since half of it is luck! (even then, if you had £100k to invest, would you rather trust someone with 10 years of experience and a track record of good returns or the work experience kid?)

 

[Greebo]

As I said, it's a combination between the 2 (the lab assistant isn't getting paid the same as the theoretical physicist), and there are always exceptions - the financial sector being one of the worst, since half of it is luck! (even then, if you had £100k to invest, would you rather trust someone with 10 years of experience and a track record of good returns or the work experience kid?)

Generally within an industry... yes. Generally in society...no.

Explain to me how day traders get paid millions a year vs a theoretical physicist on £50k year. Who do you think is higher skilled, better educated, more intelligent etc. There is not that much logic to salaries beyond the wealth in the industry.

The problem is that it is a global market. If you dont pay these financial market whizz kids millions per year there is always another country prepared to pay that wage so they will just move there, Paris or Frankfurt for example.

You dont get that with binmen.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Generally within an industry... yes. Generally in society...no.

Explain to me how day traders get paid millions a year vs a theoretical physicist on £50k year. Who do you think is higher skilled, better educated, more intelligent etc. There is not that much logic to salaries beyond the wealth in the industry.

So you reckon it's far easier to be a day trader ? If that's true then there would be more of them and then they wouldn't make as much.

Day trading is a highly skilled, highly risky job and not many have the balls to even try it.

If day trading is so easy why don't you do it?

Only a handful of traders make decent money day trading. There's a lot of scammers and fakers out there.

 

[dowie]

Explain to me how day traders get paid millions a year vs a theoretical physicist on £50k year. Who do you think is higher skilled, better educated, more intelligent etc. There is not that much logic to salaries beyond the wealth in the industry.

Probably the day traders tbh... (assuming we're talking about people who actually derive a living from trading not people LARPing on social media/youtube selling courses and earning money from marketing for dodgy retail brokerages).

Very few earn millions per year, more like low to mid 6 figures... you'd generally need to be managing a team/desk to be earning 7 these days (this wasn't always the case). The pool of people hired by electronic trading firms/market makers these days come from a similar background to those who might stay on for PhDs at good universities (in fact some will have PhDs, especially in the more research oriented roles) and getting into these roles is very competitive.

A theoretical physicist on 50k a year perhaps isn't making a big impact and is mostly being paid to be a teacher/lecturer and supervisor of grad students tbh...

The problem is that it is a global market. If you dont pay these financial market whizz kids millions per year there is always another country prepared to pay that wage so they will just move there, Paris or Frankfurt for example.

It isn't about paying anyone a wage tbh.. they have a role and if they lose their edge at it then some other firm/group of traders will happily come along and eat their lunch - the exchanges are public the rules are transparent and they need some sub set of people willing to take on risk and provide liquidity in order for the exchanges to function... it has nothing to do with any country being willing to pay someone anything - the money is made by the activity they perform.

 

[Greebo]

Probably the day traders tbh... (assuming we're talking about people who actually derive a living from trading not people LARPing on social media/youtube selling courses and earning money from marketing for dodgy retail brokerages).

Very few earn millions per year, more like low to mid 6 figures... you'd generally need to be managing a team/desk to be earning 7 these days (this wasn't always the case). The pool of people hired by electronic trading firms/market makers these days come from a similar background to those who might stay on for PhDs at good universities (in fact some will have PhDs, especially in the more research oriented roles) and getting into these roles is very competitive.

A theoretical physicist on 50k a year perhaps isn't making a big impact and is mostly being paid to be a teacher/lecturer and supervisor of grad students tbh...



It isn't about paying anyone a wage tbh.. they have a role and if they lose their edge at it then some other firm/group of traders will happily come along and eat their lunch - the exchanges are public the rules are transparent and they need some sub set of people willing to take on risk and provide liquidity in order for the exchanges to function... it has nothing to do with any country being willing to pay someone anything - the money is made by the activity they perform.

rubbish. Are you telling me if you were a gifted traded and a uk company offered you £30k per annum and a french company offered you two million per annum that you would stay with the UK company?
Cause that’s what some people in here are talking about, bring the big wages down to close to bin men level so we are all equal. Maybe that’s unfair a bit, it might only be £50k per annum but the same thing applied. Uk companies just wouldn’t attract anybody to do the UK trader jobs or if they did, they would be so useless the company wouldn’t make any money. No idea what you are talking about or how that has any relevance

 

[BongoHunter]

rubbish. Are you telling me if you were a gifted traded and a uk company offered you £30k per annum and a french company offered you two million per annum that you would stay with the UK company?
Cause that’s what some people in here are talking about, bring the big wages down to close to bin men level so we are all equal. Maybe that’s unfair a bit, it might only be £50k per annum but the same thing applied. Uk companies just wouldn’t attract anybody to do the UK trader jobs or if they did, they would be so useless the company wouldn’t make any money. No idea what you are talking about or how that has any relevance

Your taking an extreme view to win an argument - very few people are advocating everyone gets paid the same regardless of role - that would be stupid.