That's confusing!
And Lewis Hamilton wins his 8th Championship!
- Thread starter Merlin5
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That's confusing!
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And George Russell wins his maiden Championship!
^ Will we hear these words by the end of 2021?
^ Will we hear these words by the end of 2021?
And George Russell wins his maiden Championship!
^ Will we hear these words by the end of 2021?
No, no we won't.
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Would love to see the Hamboys squirm if we did though!!!
Why would they be squirming?
It's only realistically possible if Lewis doesn't drive this season, given that's the only uncontracted seat, so there wouldn't be much squirming as Hamilton will effectively have retired.
That's assuming that Hamilton fans aren't also Russell fans in the first place, I suspect you'll find most Hamilton fans would be just as pleased to see Russell do well, if by some miracle the Williams turns into a title contender.
Soldato
Annoyingly they locked the Hamilton contract thread 
Anyways, it's being reported that Hamilton will have a 'Verstappen Clause' (being able to veto your teammate), And whilst we can't yet be 100% sure this is accurate I don't think anyone would put this past him.
If true, how can you try and prove yourself to be the best driver if you are running scared of others having the same equipment as you? Seems a bit cowardly to me given how much of a boring formality all these previous seasons have been. A shame these contracts aren't made public so we can really see
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/77596/hamilton-and-mercedes-agree-on-verstappen-clause.html
Anyways, it's being reported that Hamilton will have a 'Verstappen Clause' (being able to veto your teammate), And whilst we can't yet be 100% sure this is accurate I don't think anyone would put this past him.
If true, how can you try and prove yourself to be the best driver if you are running scared of others having the same equipment as you? Seems a bit cowardly to me given how much of a boring formality all these previous seasons have been. A shame these contracts aren't made public so we can really see
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/77596/hamilton-and-mercedes-agree-on-verstappen-clause.html
If it's a single clause of specifically not wanting to drive with Max, I think that's fine. Who knows what personal issues they might have? However, it it's more broader in that Hamilton wants veto over any future team mate, that's not on.
I also think, given the broader climate and the incoming budget caps, he shouldn't be asking for $40m. Okay, he can ask, but I think it's more reasonable to take a small cut to say $30m.
I also think, given the broader climate and the incoming budget caps, he shouldn't be asking for $40m. Okay, he can ask, but I think it's more reasonable to take a small cut to say $30m.
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Caporegime
It seems like a reasonable price for Hamilton. It's also because of the incoming cap that he wants it, the driver salary cap won't apply to existing contracts if they're agreed early enough.
Annoyingly they locked the Hamilton contract thread
Anyways, it's being reported that Hamilton will have a 'Verstappen Clause' (being able to veto your teammate), And whilst we can't yet be 100% sure this is accurate I don't think anyone would put this past him.
If true, how can you try and prove yourself to be the best driver if you are running scared of others having the same equipment as you? Seems a bit cowardly to me given how much of a boring formality all these previous seasons have been. A shame these contracts aren't made public so we can really see
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/77596/hamilton-and-mercedes-agree-on-verstappen-clause.html
I don't blame him.
But I have lost a bit of respect that it will never be the two contenders for best of the field in the same team.
Really, I doubt merc would want that either
If I was Mercedes I'd have dropped his salary a bit.
Soldato
Plot twist, Hamilton wants veto to get rid of Bottas and get Russell in the car.
It’s strange if he asking for it as he hasn’t previously shyed away having good team mates. It’s also a bit of a different to Verstappen who has, AFAICR, has had a veto clause since day 1 at Red Bull.
It’s strange if he asking for it as he hasn’t previously shyed away having good team mates. It’s also a bit of a different to Verstappen who has, AFAICR, has had a veto clause since day 1 at Red Bull.
I am not sure about this story at all. The 1-2 year makes sense. If Lewis signs for 3 years I would be surprised as don't see Toto at MB for the next 3 years. If Lewis is vetoing drivers it will come out at some point given his openly 'bring it on' stance.
History shows that two top flight drivers in the same team never works. Taking that aside, would MB really stump up the costs to pay both Max and Lewis? I cant see it.
History shows that two top flight drivers in the same team never works. Taking that aside, would MB really stump up the costs to pay both Max and Lewis? I cant see it.
Soldato
That's definitely not true. There are examples all the way from the 50s where top tier drivers and champions got on well with their highly rated teammates and/or won a championship.
Farina/Fangio/Ascari
Brabham/Hulme
Clark/G Hill
Stewart/Cevert
Mansell/Piquet (their relationship wasn't good, but they won a drivers title and dominated the constructors championships both years)
Senna/Berger (Berger's stock was still high when he joined McLaren, and he famously earned Senna's respect and love)
Edit: D Hill/J Villeneuve (I don't rank either as a top driver, but they were the only two in the 1996 championship)
Hamilton/Button
Alonso/Raikkonen (the 00s dream team)
Vettel/Raikkonen
Hamilton/Rosberg (granted they soon fell out, but they were still friends when Mercedes became the dominant team and have won every championship during and since).
History isn't filled with champions lining up together, but strong driver pairings usually isn't a disaster. It's easy to look at the McLaren implosion of 2007, but that's more a rarity than the norm, and with better management they would have won at least the drivers title. Dennis's favouritism backfired horribly especially when combined with Spygate.
I can't immediately think of another driver pairing which cost a team both championships (or even either championship) - maybe 1982, but it's a bit of a stretch given that one driver died after four races and the other was leading the standings before a career-ending accident at Hockenheim.
Mercedes is in the unique position of probably winning both titles with or without Hamilton - surely this season anyway. They could take Bottas and Russell and surely one of them would win the title.
Verstappen isn't going to Mercedes while Hamilton is there anyway. He's confident, but he loves his elevated status and it would be a huge kick in the teeth if he went there and Hamilton beat him. He's got loads of years left in him and a choice of seats, so he might as well stay put, see how the 2022 rules start and take his pick - probably replacing Hamilton whenever Hamilton chooses to leave. As sad as it is, with or without a veto we'll never see them pair up.
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Verstappen would beg to differ.
@this_is_gav I would argue, comparing Moss and Fangio, Clark and Hill, Cevert and Stewart, they were a different generation, those days of respect between team mates is long gone. Team mates back then would not run another off the road due to the dangers.
I think Verstappen and Hamilton would turn south very quickly - Verstappen is too much a hot head. I think Hamilton is older and wiser to deal with but I still think Verstappen (like Rosberg) would get under his skin. Its a big and expensive gamble for MB. All it takes is a poacher like Raikkonen when Alonso and Hamilton imploded.
I think Verstappen and Hamilton would turn south very quickly - Verstappen is too much a hot head. I think Hamilton is older and wiser to deal with but I still think Verstappen (like Rosberg) would get under his skin. Its a big and expensive gamble for MB. All it takes is a poacher like Raikkonen when Alonso and Hamilton imploded.
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Soldato
Regardless of generation, there is still no other recent example where the team suffered in the standings due to having two top team-mates.
Would Hamilton and Verstappen get spicy in a Mercedes? Probably. Would Mercedes lose out on either championship as a result? On the basis of recent years (and this year having to carry over most of the car) I have to say almost certainly not.
I might be a small gamble, but surely not enough of one that it would result in a stalemate to the point where a seven times champion would refuse to sign on the microscopic chance Verstappen buy his way out of his contract (or have a clause) for next year.
Hamilton won eleven races last season (and missed one event), which is one more than Max Verstappen has won in his entire six year career. Even if they teamed up it would be hard to see beyond Mercedes unless they punted each other off at every opportunity.
You could argue that the bigger gamble would be Mercedes missing out on a top driver if Verstappen signs a long term deal with either Red Bull or Ferrari and either make a step forward with the 2022 cars.
Would Hamilton and Verstappen get spicy in a Mercedes? Probably. Would Mercedes lose out on either championship as a result? On the basis of recent years (and this year having to carry over most of the car) I have to say almost certainly not.
I might be a small gamble, but surely not enough of one that it would result in a stalemate to the point where a seven times champion would refuse to sign on the microscopic chance Verstappen buy his way out of his contract (or have a clause) for next year.
Hamilton won eleven races last season (and missed one event), which is one more than Max Verstappen has won in his entire six year career. Even if they teamed up it would be hard to see beyond Mercedes unless they punted each other off at every opportunity.
You could argue that the bigger gamble would be Mercedes missing out on a top driver if Verstappen signs a long term deal with either Red Bull or Ferrari and either make a step forward with the 2022 cars.
Why risk it though, Hamilton has a proven record consistency and hence bringing home the title, paired with Bottas who is a reliable points scorer you've got a good team who work well together and cause no issues.
Hamilton and Verstappon would, at best, provide the same end result. At worst it would cost them both money and the titles. It could lead to tension between drivers, which will lead to tension between sides of the garage and an inferior working envrionment. Oh, and it would cost more just in pure driver salaries.
There's a benefit to the fans/spectators. There's a benefit to 'the sport' seeing possibly the top two drivers battling it out. But there's *no* benefit to Mercedes.
As for ditching Hamilton due to the alleged 'excessive demands' and replacing with Russell. Whilst I rate Russell highly is a poor move on a risk/reward basis. I'd really like to see Hamilton and Russell in the Mercedes from 2022 onwards tbh.
The changes for 2021 are bigger than a lot of people seem to think, the change in downforce will be dramatic, nobody would bet against Mercedes yet again making the best car but it's not guarunteed at all.
Hamilton and Verstappon would, at best, provide the same end result. At worst it would cost them both money and the titles. It could lead to tension between drivers, which will lead to tension between sides of the garage and an inferior working envrionment. Oh, and it would cost more just in pure driver salaries.
There's a benefit to the fans/spectators. There's a benefit to 'the sport' seeing possibly the top two drivers battling it out. But there's *no* benefit to Mercedes.
As for ditching Hamilton due to the alleged 'excessive demands' and replacing with Russell. Whilst I rate Russell highly is a poor move on a risk/reward basis. I'd really like to see Hamilton and Russell in the Mercedes from 2022 onwards tbh.
The changes for 2021 are bigger than a lot of people seem to think, the change in downforce will be dramatic, nobody would bet against Mercedes yet again making the best car but it's not guarunteed at all.
