Another must have product from RA

EYEREX said:
I own some of there audio cables which are made by Kimber the PBJ and they are really good but some of there stuff is a bit nutty and over priced but if you have the money why not if you have a high end system
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Why not? Because it doesn't actually do anything? That's a pretty solid reason not to there.
 
EYEREX said:
I own some of there audio cables which are made by Kimber the PBJ and they are really good
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In terms of actual manufacturing quality, then yes some of the braided cables, decent size conductors, good quality plugs, then yes no issue there, and I'm sure most here are happy to pay more than the minimum to get good build quality cables and adapters that last.

The issue we have, is with claims that they improve sound quality (or indeed Picture quality on digital signals).


EYEREX said:
but some of there stuff is a bit nutty and over priced
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Nope - All of their stuff is overpriced.

EYEREX said:
but if you have the money why not if you have a high end system
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Because it has been proven to make no difference, but companies like RA get away with it by clever (legal dodging) marketing, and the dubious vagaries that sound is subjective.

If it was any other market then Trading Standards etc would be all over it (e.g. If I tried to sell an Internet booster that claimed to improve Download speeds, then I would have to prove that it did - I couldn't claim it "feels" faster.)
 
spoffle said:
Why not? Because it doesn't actually do anything? That's a pretty solid reason not to there.
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If your willing to spend thousands on Hi-Fi equipment spending a few thousand on cables and mains blocks is just loose change for some people

Your not going to hook everything up with bell wire
 
EYEREX said:
Your not going to hook everything up with bell wire
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Clearly there is an entire range between bell wire and £1k cables - in a double blind test, or via scientific analysis though there is no difference between reasonable cables e.g. £20-£30, and the £1k snake oil cables.


EYEREX said:
If your willing to spend thousands on Hi-Fi equipment spending a few thousand on cables and mains blocks is just loose change for some people
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Each to their own, but if I had that sort of money then I would sooner give it away to friends and family rather than the fraudsters who sell these cables.
 
Marsman said:
Valve90210 I think is probably right about what they claim the machine does, is worded in such away that they won't face any legal action if someone decides it makes no difference to their CDs.

Anyone with a shred of common sense knows that what this machine is supposed to do is a load of nonsense. Anyone who falls for the carefully worded jargon is a fool, and you know what fools are like when it comes to money. ;)
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The thing I find most concerning thing about this is that the people who have the kind of money to spend on this stuff must have relatively well paid jobs, so they must have some semblance of intelligence!

(unless of course it's all from mummy and daddy's inheritance...)

EYEREX said:
If your willing to spend thousands on Hi-Fi equipment spending a few thousand on cables and mains blocks is just loose change for some people

Your not going to hook everything up with bell wire
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Yes, because of course if you're not going to spend £10k on cables which are no better than £200 cables, then you might as well just use bell wire :rolleyes:

Sounds like someone is trying to justify their purchases :p
 
Haggisman said:
The thing I find most concerning thing about this is that the people who have the kind of money to spend on this stuff must have relatively well paid jobs, so they must have some semblance of intelligence!

(unless of course it's all from mummy and daddy's inheritance...)



Yes, because of course if you're not going to spend £10k on cables which are no better than £200 cables, then you might as well just use bell wire :rolleyes:

Sounds like someone is trying to justify their purchases :p
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PBJ cable was only about £70 back in the 90's for a set so i'm not to nutty :D
 
I think that, mostly, we're all jealous that this guy is making a killing out of these products, and that we aren't in a position to be doing it ourselves!
 
davisdavid said:
ReVeel single wipe

Seems legit........
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They start off so well though:
russandrews.com said:
With a CD or DVD player in a Hi-Fi system, there have been measurements that have proved a reduction in jitter (between 3 and 7% less), but the easiest way is to listen.
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Which can be proven - cleaning a disc probably will reduce jitter (assuming the disk is dirty)

And then we get this dross...

russandrews.com said:
Our experience of discs cleaned with ReVeel is that the sound is clearer and cleaner, less harsh, less sibilant, and more musical. It’s as if a lot of what is said of CD – hard-edged and aggressive – vanishes, making them more ‘vinyl like’. The same goes for DVD picture quality, too, with subjectively better colours and definition.
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How can 0's and 1's be anything other than 0's and 1's???? Cleaning a disc doesn't suddenly change the 0's and 1's to add more colour information to the DVD, or change the sound clarity.

But again this is sold as opinion or "our experience", not an actual this product will do this.
 
Armageus said:
They start off so well though:


Which can be proven - cleaning a disc probably will reduce jitter (assuming the disk is dirty)

And then we get this dross...



How can 0's and 1's be anything other than 0's and 1's???? Cleaning a disc doesn't suddenly change the 0's and 1's to add more colour information to the DVD, or change the sound clarity.

But again this is sold as opinion or "our experience", not an actual this product will do this.
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Amazing... Especially when you read the instructions (run it under the tap, wipe off the lather with your fingers then dry on a nice scratchy paper towel)
 
Armageus said:
They start off so well though:


Which can be proven - cleaning a disc probably will reduce jitter (assuming the disk is dirty)

And then we get this dross...



How can 0's and 1's be anything other than 0's and 1's???? Cleaning a disc doesn't suddenly change the 0's and 1's to add more colour information to the DVD, or change the sound clarity.

But again this is sold as opinion or "our experience", not an actual this product will do this.
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Yes, but what if that 1 becomes more like a 0.98? Then what? OK, so it might be digitally rounded to a 1, but that digital rounding is impacting your music and making it impure.

And at that point you might as well just not bother listening to music at all.
 
Audiophiles don't listen to music though. They spend forever listening to high quality recordings of really awful things and convince themselves they are having a good time.
 
Armageus said:
How can 0's and 1's be anything other than 0's and 1's???? Cleaning a disc doesn't suddenly change the 0's and 1's to add more colour information to the DVD, or change the sound clarity.

But again this is sold as opinion or "our experience", not an actual this product will do this.
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Whilst I agree that some of this stuff is just rubbish.
Actually, there are some theories worth mentioning.

Jitter is not about accuracy of data, rather the timing of when the data is received at the DAC chip for conversion to analogue waveform. The key point is is whether very small timing errors actually affects the analogue waverform and is thus discernable. Some people claim it is, some claim it isn't. I'm conscious that by avoiding the SPDIF connection completely in my processor, that it sounds a little more natural.

As for the 0s and 1s, there's a theory on that aswell.
When Sony/Philips first introduced CD, they went out of their way to demonstrate it's ability to work, despite potentially significant damage to the CD (e.g. drilling a whole through it). This was done with some very clever error correction technology. The implications being that it's actually rather hard to genuinely lose the data (just aswell when it's also being used for data archiving).
For all that, it was subsequently shown that conducting said error correction makes the laser work harder, and apparently can create internal noise (I assume via the PSU) that can increase jitter (see above comments about whether or not it's audible. This was to the point where I remember a manufacturer launching a CDP a decade or so back where they'd gone into the firmware of the Sony sourced drive to reduce it's error correction capability so as to lower potential jitter.

Snake oil? No idea really. Some interesting theories, but unless you yourself are a skilled and very knowledgeable electronics engineer, how are we to judge.
 
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I thought I was the only person who subscribed to the Russ Andrews mailing list just so I could laugh at the ridiculous tat.

I particularly liked the £25 13A fuse. You get a free baby wipe with it!
 
All of the timing issues and retransmission of bits can be overcome by reading data quicker than you need to output it, and buffering it. It's a problem that has been solved for decades.

Any differences that you hear by doing a digital to analogue conversion at a different part of the signal chain is due to artifacts introduced by analogue components. You aren't listening to jitter.

This is one of the best primers I've seen on digital audio https://www.xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml
 
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So we all decide what we are going to buy at the weekend during the show?... Or perhaps hold a protest outside the door and stop those wealthy people loose their money... :D

I go to point and laugh... :p

Having sold my previous "Yello" mains leads and power blocks, after I finished using them to convert my plugs and leads when I lived in Italy for a couple of years.... Back in the UK couldn't convince myself they were doing anything, perhaps making sound a bit soft and laking sparkle... I got most of my money back via eBay ;)

I do like the high silver content "wonder solder" though, it flows really nice and makes nice good sounding joints.

I'm also looking forward to the Chord cable demo, they have some 2K interconnect leads which people swear by :p

Plus a Linn SPACE+ and EXAKT setup will be on demo with Kudos active speakers, which should be a bit special.

Plus the usual game of trying to find the most outlandish turntable... I want to see a twin contra rotating plater design.... :eek:
 
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