another school kid arrested

Geoff · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:18

peter_hutson said:
Don't forget that a class containing children not fluent in English will result in a significant amount of the teachers time being spent assisting them with, what would otherwise be simple tasks. Reducing the amount of time spent with the other pupils, hence damaging their education.

Many children arrive in this country not speaking the lingo, I have no problem with that. They're kids, it's not their fault. But they should not be put into mainstream education until they can achieve a certain level of spoken English. Doing so simply hides the problem under the rug and other children have to may the price.

Alternatively the government should set up special education centres for these kids, but then everyone might start to see the cost! Not so sure Tony would like that one. Better to shove them into normal state schools and hence maintain the argument that immigration is a great thing and we should count ourselves lucky. Preventing a proper open debate about the costs of mass immigration.

BOT, even if this girl did make racist remarks, is this really how our police should be spending their time. For the love of god, suspend the girl. Drag her parents in and inform them her attitude will not be tolerated. Seemed to work when I was at school. Alternatively call the police, resulting in a full investigation, get the council legal department involved and no doubt a load of social workers. Hey it's only the tax payers money, lets just wee it away.

Assuming the facts are as per that report, and given that I don't consider the Daily Mail exactly the more even-handed source of facts, then I absolutely agree.

My reaction is :-

1) The police and the school authorities grossly over-reacted. You can't get police to attend burglaries or car thefts half the time, these days. Maybe it's because they're all stationed in schools doing the high-risk high-priority job of ensuring 14-year old girls don't upset immigrants by being asked to be grouped with people that actually speak our language.

2) This puts serious doubts on the teacher's competence for having put this girl in a group where only one of the other five actually spoke English, and then issuing an instruction to "discuss". I mean, what flipping language did she think those that don't speak English were going to use to discuss it? So why stick an English-only-speaking student in that group?

The teacher needs re-educating, or dismissing, if you ask me.

And, while we take various immigrants into this country, many of whom don't speak the language, we absolutely did NOT ought to disadvantage our own kid's education as a result. That much ought to be both flippin' obvious, and sacrosanct. Getting those immigrant kids to a point where they can benefit from mainstream education needs to be done without impacting on that mainstream education and, if we take in non-English-speakers, we either accept a duty to achieve that for the kids, or we're wrong to accept them in the first place.

AJUK's point about the French stance is this is dead-on correct.

Don't mistake me. I put no blame on the immigrant kids in this story. They're doing what I would, were I in their shoes. But neither they nor our kids are done any favours by dropping them into mainstream schools without thought for the consequences. THAT is done by government (local or national) decision-making. It isn't fair on either the immigrant kids or our own to treat them this way. If we're going to accept non-English-speaking kids into mainstream schools, it ought to be after ensuring both that they can benefit from the classes, and that it doesn't disrupt our own kids education.

NokkonWud · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:22

Now some of you won't agree with this, to those I appologise, but...

If someone was to ask me, what does your general, lower class, racist 14 year old look like then I'd be picturing someone who looks like her. She has all the hallmark signs of other 14 year old girls that act like they are above the law, mouthing off racist abuse up-and-down the country.

Geoff · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:26

NokkonWud said:
Now some of you won't agree with this, to those I appologise, but...

If someone was to ask me, what does your general, lower class, racist 14 year old look like then I'd be picturing someone who looks like her. She has all the hallmark signs of other 14 year old girls that act like they are above the law, mouthing off racist abuse up-and-down the country.

I'm puzzled as to how what appears to be a head-and-shoulders shot of a reasonably smart 14-year-old girl in what appears to be a school uniform looks like an "above the law, mouthing off racist"? :confused:

Jacob334 · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:29

lol yeah because to be racist you have to be white and a chav :rolleyes:

You know when i was at school and from what iv seen go on in schools there are a lot more asian kids being racist to white kids (But thats not racists apparently, and they will get away with it.. The only time people get done for racisum nowadays is whites)

shifty_uk · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:29

Geoff said:
I'm puzzled as to how what appears to be a head-and-shoulders shot of a reasonably smart 14-year-old girl in what appears to be a school uniform looks like an "above the law, mouthing off racist"?

Don't know about anyone else, but she looks chavvy to me.

dirtydog · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:30

NokkonWud said:
Now some of you won't agree with this, to those I appologise, but...

If someone was to ask me, what does your general, lower class, racist 14 year old look like then I'd be picturing someone who looks like her. She has all the hallmark signs of other 14 year old girls that act like they are above the law, mouthing off racist abuse up-and-down the country.

Do you not agree that having non-English-speaking children in schools is causing disruption and is detrimental to British children's education?

Jacob334 · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:30

shifty_uk said:
Don't know about anyone else, but she looks chavvy to me.

she does but then she is from manchester

Jacob334 · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:31

dirtydog said:
Do you not agree that having non-English-speaking children in schools is causing disruption and is detrimental to British children's education?

YES i DO! Speak to ANY teahcer and they will tell you that..

Geoff · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:32

shifty_uk said:
Don't know about anyone else, but she looks chavvy to me.

Why?

I mean, maybe she is for all I know. But I can't see why it looks like it from that picture. I'm serious when I say "Why?" What it is that makes you say that?

dirtydog · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:32

shifty_uk said:
Don't know about anyone else, but she looks chavvy to me.

When forced to sit with non-English-speaking children, meaning her education was disrupted, what should she have done - kept quiet and suffered in silence? Then again that's what we're supposed to do about mass immigration isn't it?

VIRII · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:32

We are looking to move house and comparing ofsted school reports etc in order to try and ensure we move to an area where the schools are good.

It is noticeable that the schools with historically good scores and ofsted reports do not have high numbers of students for whom English is classed as a second language or high numbers of kids with behavioural or learning difficulties.

I wonder why this is? Could it be that kids who can't speak English well hold back the rest of the class as do those who disrupt class?

If anyone wants to double check this then the areas we are looking at are Harpenden, St Albans, Watford and Hemel Hempstead. We are mostly looking at primary and junior schooling with an eye on senior schools.

SiD the Turtle · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:33

Jacob334 said:
lol yeah because to be racist you have to be white and a chav

You know when i was at school and from what iv seen go on in schools there are a lot more asian kids being racist to white kids (But thats not racists apparently, and they will get away with it.. The only time people get done for racisum nowadays is whites)

What has that got to do with this thread?

toString · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:35

Ex-RoNiN said:
Just look at her, typical chav girl. I bet there's more to the story.

It's the daily mail, so I'm pretty sure there is. However that won't effect this thread....

shifty_uk · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:35

dirtydog said:
When forced to sit with non-English-speaking children, meaning her education was disrupted, what should she have done - kept quiet and suffered in silence? Then again that's what we're supposed to do about mass immigration isn't it?

I'm not saying we should sit and be quiet atall, of course we shouldn't. If I was at school and in a similar situation then I'd have a quiet word with the teacher. What I am saying though, is that she does have quite a chavvy appearance and I wouldn't be surprised if she was kicking up a huge fuss, mouthing off and giving everyone a hard time.

Jacob334 · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:38

VIRII said:
We are looking to move house and comparing ofsted school reports etc in order to try and ensure we move to an area where the schools are good.

It is noticeable that the schools with historically good scores and ofsted reports do not have high numbers of students for whom English is classed as a second language or high numbers of kids with behavioural or learning difficulties.

I wonder why this is? Could it be that kids who can't speak English well hold back the rest of the class as do those who disrupt class?

If anyone wants to double check this then the areas we are looking at are Harpenden, St Albans, Watford and Hemel Hempstead. We are mostly looking at primary and junior schooling with an eye on senior schools.

Whatever you do dont come near Harrow or move closer to london because its been going down the ****er for years, most schools now have got about a 80% foreign 20% english now..

dirtydog · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:39

KingAdora said:
It's the daily mail, so I'm pretty sure there is. However that won't effect this thread....

Or affect it either perhaps... but regardless of the precise circumtances of this particular case, it still illustrates a very real and increasing problem in schools in this country due to immigration.

SiD the Turtle · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:40

Jacob334 said:
Whatever you do dont come near Harrow or move closer to london because its been going down the ****er for years, most schools now have got about a 80% foreign 20% english now..

I agree, the sole reason why this country is so bad is because of all those filthy foreigners. How dare they. [/sarcasm]

Jacob334 · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:41

SiD the Turtle said:
What has that got to do with this thread?

The thread is about how a white girl in a manchester school was arrested because she was is 'racist' for saying that she didnt want to work with asian kids because they didnt speak english. I was saying that when i was at school all the asian kids could be as racist as they like and would never be punished but if its the other way round then it will be. So thats what it has to do with this thread..

dirtydog · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:42

SiD the Turtle said:
I agree, the sole reason why this country is so bad is because of all those filthy foreigners. How dare they. [/sarcasm]

It might not be the sole reason but we do have to ask ourselves whether our immigration policy is having a net positive or negative effect don't we. To many people it is clearly the latter.

SiD the Turtle · 13 Oct 2006 at 10:42

Jacob334 said:
The thread is about how a white girl in a manchester school was arrested because she was is 'racist' for saying that she didnt want to work with asian kids because they didnt speak english. I was saying that when i was at school all the asian kids could be as racist as they like and would never be punished but if its the other way round then it will be. So thats what it has to do with this thread..

An unsubstatiated generalisation.