Another school shooting in the US

They certainly do not drop unless you hit them right on their CNS i.e. brain stem or spine and the bullet actually penetrates deep enough. Handguns are considered last ditch weapons they are so ineffective. Their only benefit is you can have it on you at all times. 3/4 of people shot by handguns survive, often with enough ability to fight back especially if they are drugged up and dont register it. That's why you need at least a semi auto with 10+ bullets and a spare mag.

Just look on google news for police shootings. For example this guy shot 10 times and survives. Happens every day.

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_22236374/man-shot-10-times-by-torrance-police-during
 
kwerk said:
They certainly do not drop unless you hit them right on their CNS i.e. brain stem or spine and the bullet actually penetrates deep enough. Handguns are considered last ditch weapons they are so ineffective. Their only benefit is you can have it on you at all times. 3/4 of people shot by handguns survive, often with enough ability to fight back especially if they are drugged up and dont register it. That's why you need at least a semi auto with 10+ bullets and a spare mag.

Just look on google news for police shootings. For example this guy shot 10 times and survives. Happens every day.

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_22236374/man-shot-10-times-by-torrance-police-during
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Hmm, first bullet went through a door and so a lot of the energy was dissipated. The following nine incapacitated him. Sounds to me like they did their job with less than a clip's worth of bullets there. Fantastic job at disproving your own argument!
 
Jokester said:
Surviving after being shot 10 times and still being an effective combatant are two separate things.
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If you shot someone who had a gun in their hand 10 times before they fell down but were still conscious and moving around with the gun still in their hand, would you keep shooting them or say "well i shot him and he fell down so good enough"? That's how naive people get themselves killed. That 30 seconds it takes for him to lose blood pressure and die is still plenty of time for him to shoot someone.
 
kwerk said:
If you shot someone who had a gun in their hand 10 times before they fell down but were still conscious and moving around with the gun still in their hand, would you keep shooting them or say "well i shot him and he fell down so good enough"? That's how naive people get themselves killed. That 30 seconds it takes for him to lose blood pressure and die is still plenty of time for him to shoot someone.
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Yeah because that happens doesn't it.
 
I can't believe the NRA's news conference the other day. They sounded ridiculous.

Putting armed guards in schools? Obviously these are the 'good men with guns' who will shoot the 'bad men with guns'.

Well since all kinds of people can have mental breakdowns surely they are putting kids in even more danger?

Say a Security officer has a breakdown, great he is already on site armed and dangerous!! It does happen, police officers have breakdowns, soldiers and various other armed people. The consequences will be horrendous.

Guns should be nowhere near children imo.
 
Happens all the time.

Search youtube for "Dash Cam Video Shows Fatal Shooting of Ernest Duenez" (totally NSFW!!!) and watch how long he keeps moving while the cop is reloading. Plenty of time to shoot a gun if he had one (he was going for a knife in the vehicle). Ruled as a "good shoot" by the police.
 
Third Opinion said:
I can't believe the NRA's news conference the other day. They sounded ridiculous.

Putting armed guards in schools? Obviously these are the 'good men with guns' who will shoot the 'bad men with guns'.

Well since all kinds of people can have mental breakdowns surely they are putting kids in even more danger?

Say a Security officer has a breakdown, great he is already on site armed and dangerous!! It does happen, police officers have breakdowns, soldiers and various other armed people. The consequences will be horrendous.

Guns should be nowhere near children imo.
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Airline pilots are armed after 9/11 and flights also have plain clothes air marshalls who are armed. if you are flying on an American plane you might be surprised there are at least 2 handguns somewhere on board. Most large high schools also have a full time armed police officer assigned to them. Universities all have their own dedicated police department and have done for a long time. Not ridiculous by any means.

For example: http://utpolice.utk.edu/

University of Tennessee Police Department (UTPD). With 52 fully commissioned police officers.
 
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Moses said:
Pilots are armed? I would have assumed their policies would just be to stay in the cabin, with the door locked, under all circumstances.

How many air marshals are there/what percentage of flights are covered? If you mentioned them in response to someone saying about security guards going nuts... I'm sure air marshals are close to the least likely for that to happen, and are vetted to the max (similar to other extremely important security jobs, like the US Secret Service)... so I wouldn't say having armed air marshals is risky/a bad idea and is a totally different idea to having lower standard armed security at every school.
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About 10,000 US pilots are certified by the TSA to carry a handgun on flights. They won't say how many air marshals there are for obvious reasons but I would guess "lots". The budget equals $3000 per FLIGHT so figure it out.
 
Moses said:
There are ~28 000 commercial flights a day. There are 365 days a year. $3000 per flight budget.

28000*365*3000 = 51 100 000 000.

51 BILLION Dollars.

Really?
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ok i looked it up, it costs $3000 per flight they are ON and they work in 2 man teams. There is an estimated 2000 teams, so I guess about 1 in 14 flights assuming the 28,000 is just passenger flights?
 
kwerk said:
If you shot someone who had a gun in their hand 10 times before they fell down but were still conscious and moving around with the gun still in their hand, would you keep shooting them or say "well i shot him and he fell down so good enough"? That's how naive people get themselves killed. That 30 seconds it takes for him to lose blood pressure and die is still plenty of time for him to shoot someone.
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Jesus, you need to get a grip on reality. Get off the internet, stop watching films and go outside you strange boy.
 
kwerk said:
About 10,000 US pilots are certified by the TSA to carry a handgun on flights. They won't say how many air marshals there are for obvious reasons but I would guess "lots". The budget equals $3000 per FLIGHT so figure it out.
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And what happens when they shoot someone and take out a window ? A single bullet hole is manageable but a window will cause massive decompression and possible failure of the Aircraft structure. Most armed people on military jets carry weapons that are not harmful to the aircraft if they are required to do so.
 
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Just watched the full video of the NRA's comments on their website.

My blood was boiling at some of their comments. Such as the saying that the media have got their facts wrong such as talking about "machine guns" when really they mean "semi automatic weapons", jesus, semantics.

How some Americans believe they are a model nation is beyond me. They talk about having guns in schools to protect them which just boggles my mind. Do they not recognise that fighting fire with fire is NOT combatting the root cause of the problem? It's just unbelievable. I'd love to have a debate with one of those NRA heads, I can't see how any right minded individual could lose an argument about guns, to the likes of them.
 
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MOOGLEYS said:
And what happens when they shoot someone and take out a window ? A single bullet hole is manageable but a window will cause massive decompression and possible failure of the Aircraft structure. Most armed people on military jets carry weapons that are not harmful to the aircraft if they are required to do so.
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Mythbusters tested it, a single bullet hole can't cause explosive decompression.

Even a whole window blowing out isn't that big of a problem.

Your point still stands, I think they use rubber bullets, I'm not sure though
 
Armed sky marshals will start flying on British passenger jets this week because of increased fears of a terrorist attack.
The plain-clothed officers will be armed with low-velocity handguns. It is hoped that these will allow them to take out a terrorist without puncturing the outer skin of the plane.
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Not sure if this actually came about or not tbh.
 
kwerk said:
Happens all the time.

Search youtube for "Dash Cam Video Shows Fatal Shooting of Ernest Duenez" (totally NSFW!!!) and watch how long he keeps moving while the cop is reloading. Plenty of time to shoot a gun if he had one (he was going for a knife in the vehicle). Ruled as a "good shoot" by the police.
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If that's ruled as a 'good shot' then they simply require proper training on the use of a gun when going for a killing shot.

UK Police do on rare occasion have to shoot. They seem to manage fine with just 1 bullet....
 
Moses said:
Rubber bullets? I don't think they'd use those big riot control guns/shotguns/etc with rubber rounds - do handguns have them? Ones which are effective enough for use on a plane, against a serious threat, I mean?
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Frangible bullets.

http://www.ruag.com/Ammotec/Defence_and_Law_Enforcement/Further_information/Frangible_Ammunition

no backsplashes or ricochets on hard targets
upon impact complete disintegration into small fragments
majoity of fragments < 1 % of the bullet weight
fragments lose their energy very quickly and aren't dangerous after a short distance
 
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