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Any AMD mini-ITX board with M.2 slot on the backside? (for a Ryzen 2 build)

Discussion in 'Motherboards' started by Decoman, Jan 12, 2020.

  1. Decoman

    Associate

    Joined: Dec 19, 2010

    Posts: 36

    I am considering building a passive PC build (Monsterlabo), but I have a difficult time figuring out if there are any AMD mini-ITX mobos with the M.2 slot on the backside.

    https://www.monsterlabo.com/compatibility
    According to the website above, an AMD X470 mobo sort of fits, with tweaks, but I can't tell if the M.2 slot is usable or not. I guess I should contact them myself for that particular question.

    For the X470-I Gaming mini-ITX mobo, the compatibility lists states:
    *These motherboards are not compatible with standard fixture. They can be mounted by removing the mezzanine PCB (audio PCB) or by bending the CPU cooling and using a riser. Front NVMe slot can’t be used. For this assembly, please contact the team. If required, a dedicated fixture will be produced for these cards [Update: 11/03/2019].

    Btw, removing the audio pcb sounds like removing audio, which sounds weird to me, I wonder what that really entails. I guess I should contanct them about, what that a custom fixture would even look like.

    Images showing the placement of the M.2 slot on the X470-I mobo:
    https://ibb.co/5GySkTy (shows the M.2 heatsink on top)
    https://ibb.co/4f2Crxd (shows the M.2 slot, but on an elevated level off the board)


    Disclaimer: I don't like to namedrop products, but I can't help but sometimes being a little excited. Having said that, I wonder where the I/O plate connectors are on the Monsterlabo, if the mobo itself is vertical, and not having its I/O plate out towards any of the sides. :| Edit: Hm, they are selling cables that appear to fit the custom back plate, so maybe these cables are supposed to just connect to the mobo, and feed the other backplate. Edit: Ah, so, it looks like a regular PSU (ATX) will fit, but can't be used together with the 120mm fan. So, a smaller PSU like Corsair SF600 has to be used if also wanting the 120mm fan installed near the bottom. ALSO, their off site forum news announced very rencently that there will be big news soon. So, I will hold my purchase until I get to learn what that is, even if that means this is some future product, I would like to know in advance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  2. Decoman

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    Joined: Dec 19, 2010

    Posts: 36

    Oh, regarding 3700X and Monsterlabo with some mobo, they pointed out high temps, but perhaps not due to case? Unsure. Something to investigate further as a consumer. Apparently some issue with high idle temps with the 3700X. Sounds familiar to me, but nothing I know much about. I think I read about such a problem, which may or may not already have been resolved I guess.
    https://www.monsterlabo.com/post/19-dec-components-warning

    I can't help but wonder if they are perhaps not up-to-date with Ryzen stuff, which, I guess, might be problematic re. bios and temp stuff.

    Re. this particular case, one can apparently add a 140mm fan near the bottom, and also, a 200mm fan on the very top.

    Btw, I found a reddit thread about high idle temps in general for the ryzen 3700X cpu:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbc1eu/hi_folk_what_is_your_3700x_idle_temp/

    Hm, I suspect that this idle temps might be related to what AMD mentioned about monitoring software (using more than one) triggering the cpu to overlock or something.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  3. tamzzy

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 26, 2012

    Posts: 12,228

    Aorus x570i has an m.2 on the back
    (I've got one)
     
  4. Decoman

    Associate

    Joined: Dec 19, 2010

    Posts: 36

    Thanks for the feedback. I will check that mobo out.

    Ah, that is an ATX mobo, so a little too large. (sry, a webpage said it was ATX, but official webpage sys mini-ITX.


    Btw, the instruction video for monsterlabo case also show their M.2 slot being on the backside, easily used that way. I did send an email to Monsterlabo, re. what to think about any mobo with the M.2 slot on the front.

    The X570i board is also discussed by this youtuber:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk3PD-4zPN0 ("X570 Power Consumption Measured - What is going on here?") Check out 12:00 min mark.

    An article about a greater TDP for X570 mobo platform:
    https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cp..._are_fan-cooled_it_s_much_needed_claims_msi/1
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  5. tonys

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 727

    Gigabyte X570 I AORUS PRO WIFI AMD Socket AM4 X570 Chipset Mini-ITX Motherboard has a M.2 slot on the back.
     
  6. an0nym0us

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 15, 2019

    Posts: 1,140

    The MSI B450I Gaming Plus AC also an M.2 slot on the back. The VRM is really decent, but not as good as the Gigabyte X570 I.

    The advantage of the MSI B450I is that it doesn't have a chipset fan.
     
  7. Decoman

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    Joined: Dec 19, 2010

    Posts: 36

    I think not having a fan included on the mobo is a plus in this case. Thanks for the feedback!

    Apparently the MSI B450I Gaming Plus AC mobo is fully compatible with the Monsterlabo case so that is good to know.


    Seems that maybe there isn't a way to downvolt the cpu with the MSI B450I, unsure (I am not an expert on pc building, and I have been out of the loop for the last two years: I wonder if it might be a good idea to be able to downvolt the cpu by at least 0.1V, though I am still investigating how users run with their Ryzen 3700X processer, re. idle temps and whatnot.

    For overclocking the 3700X in an ITX system, one of the drawbacks of the B450I Gaming Plus AC is that it doesn’t have voltage offset, which makes it not ideal for XFR2 and temperature management. With that said, the VRM on this ITX motherboard outweighs any drawbacks, and is why it is our recommendation as the best ITX motherboard for the Ryzen 7 3700X and Ryzen 7 3800X SFF builds. This ITX motherboard will be more than capable of overclocking the Ryzen 7 3700X & 3800X, despite the small ITX form factor.

    Source: https://premiumbuilds.com/motherboards/best-motherboards-for-ryzen-7-3700x-3800x/ (never heard of this website before myself, but maybe tjey make sense)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  8. Decoman

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    Joined: Dec 19, 2010

    Posts: 36

    Ok, so far I think I am getting closer to something that might be a future Ryzen 3700X build:

    Monsterlabo case (passive cooled with six heapipes and stuff) w. optional 120mm fan & 200mm fan on top.
    Ryzen 3700X cpu (eight core, 7nm cpu)
    MSI B450I gaming mobo (has an M.2 slot on the backside, for easy access, heatsink coooler for mobo, without a fan)
    Seagate fanless PSU (no place left for the 120mm fan unless going for a smaller PSU)
    RX580 card (fans removed, passive cooled by the case w. six heatpipes and stuff), though, though might be too powerful/hot. Unsure if VRM's need some kind of heatsink. Monsterlabo thinks not, because of how the card will be vertical inside case (if I remember that part correctly). Update: They also a custom vrm mod apparently for your graphics card, on their website.
    ..OR ponying up for an Nvidia GTX 2070 card.

    Edit: Uuh, this seems overly complicated. Hard figuring out what GPUs would be suitable for a passive cooling solution that can cool about 160W with fans on, and some 100W+ with fans off. Also can't easily find photos of pcb, nor pcb card length for gfx cards.

    Buildzoid seem to like the MSI B450I gaming AC Plus board:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWAwOH-egFs (6 min 8 sec into the video)
    Bullzoid do point out the lack of an offset voltage for the MSI B450I gaming plus mobo, to avoid cpu running too hot for no good reason, unsure how that would relate to Ryzen 3700X, that some (previously at least) pointed out as running too hot on idle for no good reason. (Feel free to update me with info re. hot temps on idle for the Ryzen 3700X cpu.)

    Hm, I will await feedback to Monsterlabo, if the Asus ROG Strix X470 board can be used with some tinkering, and also using the M.2 slot.



    And.. on reddit in this thread I read something worrying:
    "(...)This one doesn't have the USB BIOS flash feature so you will need an older CPU."
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cl1eih/3700x_works_like_a_charm_on_my_msi_b450i_gaming/

    Making me wonder, if there are any issues perhaps for updating the bios with the B450I board. I had hoped it would have a bios update feature on the backside for flashing the bios with a usb stick. (I DO have the first gen Ryzen 1800X myself available.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  9. an0nym0us

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 15, 2019

    Posts: 1,140

    Note that none of the AM4 ITX B450 and X470 motherboards have BIOS flashback buttons, so if the B450/X470 ITX motherboard you pick isn't shipped with a Ryzen 3000 compatible BIOS, you'll need a 1st or 2nd gen Ryzen CPU in order to update the BIOS.

    The Gigabyte X570 I, however, does have the ability to update BIOS without a CPU, and it'll be compatible with a 3rd gen Ryzen CPU anyway. Just some food for thought.
     
  10. Decoman

    Associate

    Joined: Dec 19, 2010

    Posts: 36

    So, I found this youtube video for using M-flash, so I guess I can at least use an USB pen drive in a regular usb port, to flash a pre-downloaded bios file. And then, I guess, I maybe have to do that with an older Ryzen cpu (other than 3700X?) which I luckily have.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRyFMf0D9Lc (M-Flash tutorial)

    Heh, all of this is more complicated than I thought.


    Uuuh, so according to a youtube video the 'MSI B450M Mortar' has a "bios flash button" at the back (tiny button), but not the MSI B450I Gaming Plus AC?

    Hmm, I think the Ryzen 3700X is a 2nd generation Ryzen cpu. So I am thinking maybe I don't need an older cpu for updating bios to work with the 3700X cpu. *unsure*
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  11. an0nym0us

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 15, 2019

    Posts: 1,140

    Correct.
     
  12. an0nym0us

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 15, 2019

    Posts: 1,140

    3700X is 3rd gen Ryzen on Zen 2 architecture.
     
  13. Decoman

    Associate

    Joined: Dec 19, 2010

    Posts: 36

    Ah, Ok. :) Thank you.






    Btw, I am reading that there is supposedly a 'AMD Ryzen 9 Pro 3900' cpu, with allegedly 65W TDP, with 12 cores. :O
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  14. tonys

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 727

    I think that is for OEM machines.