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Exactly. The snake oil never ceases to amaze me!
Any audiophiles in here?
- Thread starter Chimp Paradox
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Exactly. The snake oil never ceases to amaze me!
Scalford is an ethusiasts show, organised by people from the hifiwigam forum.
In short, there was a "debate" between a dealer involved with Bristol and a member of the forum a number of years ago. The dealer came in with "if you think you can do better...", and the person in question did.
The show is NOT there to promote the latest gear and has something like 50+ rooms with people turning up with their OWN gear, just so that people can have a listen. Great show and some really nice people.
More to the point, there's not the push from manufacturers to show of the latest and greatest.
So you'll see gear from £500 setups upwards. There was a guy there last year with a £20-30k record deck as an example.
Doesn't matter if you can afford it, as it's a great way of understanding what CAN be done with the right amount of cash.
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It's run at Scalford hall, once per year. Next one should be coming up in the next few months. I've been twice now, really enjoyed the shows. Great way to set context of what is possible, what do I like and how close am I to getting there already.
If anything, some of the best systems I've ever heard have been there.
For me the most enjoyable last year was:
1. The already mentioned Wilsons (not sure which models, but they were standmounts), as driven by a combo of Wadia, Modwright and Krell
2. Can't remember the streamer, but there was one running into an old pair of Meridian DSP6000s, which sounded fabulous, enough so that I ended up visiting several of their dealers listening to the newer versions, (DSP7000s).
Lots of other REALLY good stuff too, with everything from home built kit to all the genuine big names, e.g. Linn, Naim, Esoteric, Nottingham Analogue, VPI, Avant Garde, Quad, Rogue Audio, Audio note, Snell, Border Patrol, DCS etc.
Too true. Maybe there is so much poorly mastered music, because too many people in more modern times have no idea. Why spend time and money properly mastering music, when they can churn out any old crap. These studios and labels can rake in the money regardless of the quality. People will buy it so long as there is a strong bass line. Sucks for those who actually do care about quality.
People want convenience now, so much so that it takes precedence over nearly everything else it seems.
Sad times.
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What the actual?!
Whilst it's perfectly possible for something to be whipped up in a bedroom somewhere and go viral the majority of the music you hear is handled by professionals who work to the needs of their client. If someone wants the loudest sounding, hugely compressed flattest dynamic then I might suggest for a moment that it will crush the music. But they're paying the bill and it's their choice.
If you employed a builder to put a wall up 4ft high and he built it 6ft because he thought it was better, you'd probably be pretty annoyed. The same principle is valid in producing music. In short, don't blame the mastering engineers.
I guess a lot depends on the sort of artists you're listening to.
I think people have always wanted convenience. It's perhaps why CD was such a big hit compared to vinyl for the mass market. Cassette Tape even more so in the portable sense, and MP3 the biggest hit of all.Too true. Maybe there is so much poorly mastered music, because too many people in more modern times have no idea. Why spend time and money properly mastering music, when they can churn out any old crap. These studios and labels can rake in the money regardless of the quality. People will buy it so long as there is a strong bass line. Sucks for those who actually do care about quality.
People want convenience now, so much so that it takes precedence over nearly everything else it seems.
Sad times.
It's ironic that we have greater access to music than ever before, and that we can consume music via a much broader array of devices, and the technology makes it so simple to tailor those choices exactly to our wishes, and yet its very popularity seems to devalue and debase the product itself. Having said that, I think it's more an issue for mainstream chart artists.
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Streaming is terrible for the artists and the only reason no one is complaining is because everyone knows they have no choice!!
Not sure about that, bad news for the record company's surely, but not the artists, considering the small amount most artists actually get from sales of the media. I was a relatively early adopter of streaming music and have been doing so for almost 10 years now (since microsoft zunes came out) and can only say that it has certainly opened my eyes /ears to a far wider variety of music than I could ever have hoped to back when I was paying £15+ a time for a pretty poor CD offering. Nowadays the only thing I would even consider actually buying outright is a vinyl version of an album I have tried and tested via streaming.
Soldato
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Looking for a bit of a steer here but recently purchased a pair of rega ELA MKII's and need a good 'budget' amp with a phono stage to drive them. This being my first foray into the world of hifi proper I want a tide me over amp probably £50-£75 max and am loking at Rotel's but their model numbers are an alphabet soup and not sure how there line ups compare.
eg is an Rotel RA-820AX better or worse than a 930AX ?
I am having the same issue with the NAD 3020. Should I go for a 3020i or e or b or just palin 3020.
As I say this will just be to get the system up and running. I would look at getting a rega brio or mira 2nd hand once got a bit more disposable income
Are there any other brands in the 50-75 budget I could look at ?
eg is an Rotel RA-820AX better or worse than a 930AX ?
I am having the same issue with the NAD 3020. Should I go for a 3020i or e or b or just palin 3020.
As I say this will just be to get the system up and running. I would look at getting a rega brio or mira 2nd hand once got a bit more disposable income
Are there any other brands in the 50-75 budget I could look at ?
Associate
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Sounds like it's worth a trip seeing as I've been out of the loop for ages.
I heard a Krell, Audio Research, Apogee Scintilla setup many years ago at a show that was simply fabulous, so it'd be interesting to see what's about now (not that I'll be shopping at that level right now).
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is there such a thing as a magazine/website that isn't full of snake oil?
Rotel.... The pure Hi-Fi version is the RA 820bx. That's the one with no bass and no treble controls. L-R balance is achieved by use of a split volume dial where friction keeps the two volume pots locked together.
RA 820 ax is the vanilla amp with conventional volume and separate controls for bass/treble/balance.
The 830 is an RX 830. That's a different (and lesser) beast all together. The X stands for "receiver". So it's a basic amp/tuner single box affair.
RA = Rotel Amplifier
RX = Rotel Receiver
RP = Rotel Phono (tuntable)
Desirability: #1 = RA820bx, #2 = RA820ax. #3 = RX830.... but in reality if it's Hi-Fi you're looking at then really the 820bx is the prime candidate.
NAD: It's a similar story with the NAD3020 (tone controls) and the 3120 (no tone controls).
3020i is the improved version of the 3020. I'd personally go for the 3020i ahead of the RA820ax, but at the age and cost it's splitting hairs. It's more likely that availability will influence your decision far more than minor tonal differences.
Other brands around at the same time as the 820bx - the Usual Suspects
Around the same original £120-£150 RRP back in the early 80's:
Premium quality budget integrated amps: NAD 3020 and 3120, Creek CAS4040, Mission Cyrus 1 [Mission sells for daft money. Creek was under valued but prices are hardening as the market wakes up to this little gem. All above are the equivalent of a £400+ amp in today's market. Just watch out for knackered capacitors though. They're not cheap to replace with like-for-like quality. If possible, go listen at the seller's home.]
2nd and 3rd tier offerings from other brands: Technics SUV5A various Pioneers, Marantz's.
Other ones to look out for: Arcam Alpha, Marantz PMA 4000, Denon PMA 250SE, Denon PMA 350SE (good phono stage), Cambridge A5. There's a mix of ages here and some might not have phono stages so check first before bidding/buying.
That's quite emotive language. I'd say that most of these esoteric tweaky products start out life because someone really feels that they make a difference in some way to the sound. Plenty of others would disagree, but that's life. A lot of what's acceptable now started out the same way.
I can clearly recall sitting in my first turntable demo when I was a young teen. My head was full of all the Hi-Fi clichés such as "veiling" and the rest. The dealer did a little experiment by isolating the speakers from the top platforms of the speaker stands with some little Meccano nuts. My mate and I looked at each other like he was crackers, but we listened, or should I say I thought I listened. I couldn't tell much difference because I was focusing on the top end and listening for detail. It was my mate who honed in on it straight away. "The bass notes stop and start more cleanly" Simple as that. There you go; two people sat in the same dem, side by side, not knowing what to expect and getting two distinctly different impressions because of how we listened. Spikes on speaker stands are now just accepted as the way we do things.
The mags do a job to make money. Folk wouldn't buy them if the message was "Your old Hi-Fi is fine. All this new stuff is bollix", would they?
Soldato
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many thanks Lucid. That's very helpful
Is there ANY commercial magazine that is free from snake oil. When someone is trying to sell something they'll hype it up, especially if the product's manufacturer is buying advertising space from the magazine in question!
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audio world is terrible for it, though, particualrly with cables, and power conditioning rubbish
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