Anyone else getting miffed off with DLC ?

You sure on that, Snes launch was £80 or £149.84 taking inflation into account :o

Also remember you need to add turbo, super, & super turbo just on the snes....

I was sure until you reminded me there were multiple SNES versions!

Yes SFIV is easily in excess of £150 if you add together all of the expansions and DLC at release prices. Nowhere near 4x£80 though.
 
I think it is silly to think that DLC has increased the cost of gaming - it hasn't but people do not accept the value of money.

I like FPS games, but paid the same price and sometimes less for almost 2 decades. My experiences have been mostly on PC, but they remain relevant when discussing cost vs value of gaming.

In 1994 I paid £20.00 for Doom II.

In 1996 I paid £29.99 for Quake.

In 1999 I paid £29.99 for Quake 3.

In 2004 I paid £29.99 for Half-Life 2.

In 2005 I paid £29.99 for Quake 4.

In 2007 I paid £29.99 for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (and £34.99 for CoD4)

In 2011 I paid £29.99 for Rage.

I can still play Quake, Quake 3 and Quake 4 online, as well as CoD4. Sure the community is way smaller but to be fair it is many years after release.

In 2014 I paid £39.99 for Titanfall. As of last week there were only around 1200 players globally!

I tried playing but kept getting connected to foreign servers and the lag was atrocious. I also had £19.99 worth of extra maps in the form of the season pass that can't be played online as there were no players using them, globally. None. Nil. Nada. Zip. So it is useless content.

It has been out less than a year and the standard of the servers and the gameplay is shocking, and the player base is almost none existent.

Compare that to a game like Quake 4, Quake 3, CoD4, even Counterstrike and you see it is a damning indictment of the cost of games vs the value for money. Even after 5 years Quake 3 had a far larger player base than Titanfall, or CoD:AW, or BLOPS2.

I appreciate fully the value of my money because I have to work hard to earn it. You can try and argue that inflation makes our money worth less these days, fair comment. How, then, can you argue that what we receive for the money is good value when most modern releases are only a 3rd of content games used to have, they are full of bugs, they often need DLC to remain relevant and if they have online features they usually only last a year or so with a decent player base?

Indeed, I have suspected for a while it is by design that new online games are mostly dead in the water after 12 months. Why? Because of the release cycle and the fact that most modern games have no option to have player rented dedi's - which are the lifeblood of online gaming. All this P2P crap is simply a device to reduce the longevity of a game. Why won't SHG/Acti let us have rentable dedis for CoD:AW for example? I suspect it is because their game has been designed with a 12month (ish) shelf life, and after which the cycle starts again and they want another £39.99 off you for CoD:AW2 (+ £19.99 for the DLC season pass which consists of content that should have been in the intitial release).

Sure, they will tell you it is because they want an optimised experience for all users. Do you believe them? If the online experience in CoD:AW is 'optimised', please shoot me now and let me play Quake 3/Quake 4/Counterstike/CoD4 in heaven! lol. They don't want you to have dedis because it takes away their control and manipulation of the market. Do you think if CoD:AW had nice fast rentable dedis the player base would have plummeted so fast? Do you think the people playing it would be more or less likely to buy an only slightly improved CoD:AW2 12 months later for £39.99 when they can still play the first one just fine?

So it is simply absurd to try and say that gaming does not cost any more these days. It does, way more in fact. I can still play Quake 3 for the money I paid for it back in 1999.

I can still, to be fair, play Titanfall but only Attrition and only on lag ridden foreign servers. It is less than a year old. Where is the value for money when I have paid a total of £59.99 for the game plus season pass and after less than a year I can only play attrition on the core maps that come with Titanfall and even then only on laggy servers? But there is light on the horizon! Titanfall 2 has been announced! Thus the cycle starts again :)

I can still play AW, but have to put up with ridiculous matchmaking, crap servers and no ability to start my own or rent one. The player base has plumetted since release so my investment come later this year will go the same way as Titanfall - IE down the pan right about the time when AW2 is released ;) On consoles it is even worse. I am having to pay for a PSN subscription to suffer the crap CoD:AW experience! lol :rolleyes:

These days it is not about passionate developers making amazing games with longevity and great value for money. It is about greedy publishers milking the market with the next iteration of a franchise that is only ever so slightly different to the last and attaching a premium price tag.

I accept that the cost of developing games has vastly increased in the last 20 years. But that does not explain or excuse why so many titles in recent years have been appalling in both content terms and their quality and longevity.

Long term bugs, day one patches, microtransactions and DLC, poor support, poor optimisation, poor console to PC ports (and poor PC development in genral), poor online experience and so on and so forth. I would happily pay £60 per game if it had quality content and longevity and worked out of the box like games used to.

Can anyone honestly argue that, bang for buck, gaming was not far better value 15 years ago?

Compare CoD4 to CoD:AW - there are roughly 7 years between them. Can anyone honestly say CoD:AW is progress? It looks better. Thats it. That is all they have managed to achieve in 7 years. The online experience - which is what CoD is all about - is atrocious. Be it PC or console, the recent CoD games have been an abomination. But allegedly it is progress and an optimised experience! :eek:
 
You can't really argue with the economics of it, your pc costs less in real terms as do games - thats simple fact.

You have even charted that in real terms you are paying less for games with your list - just put your figures through one of many inflation calculators and you will see that.

You don't even have to do that because unless there has been 0% inflation between 1996 - 2011 £29.99 can't be worth the same?

Not sure how you paid 39.99 for titanfall on pc in 2014 - it still cost you less than quake in real terms mind!
 
You can't really argue with the economics of it, your pc costs less in real terms as do games - thats simple fact.

You have even charted that in real terms you are paying less for games with your list - just put your figures through one of many inflation calculators and you will see that.

You don't even have to do that because unless there has been 0% inflation between 1996 - 2011 £29.99 can't be worth the same?

Not sure how you paid 39.99 for titanfall on pc in 2014 - it still cost you less than quake in real terms mind!

My PC costs less than what? In what way?

I bought Titanfall from origin at full price because I actually believed in it following the beta testing. It seemed like it would be a fun game to play for a long time and the developers were being really responsive to players thoughts/ideas on various aspects of the game. I actually believe in paying full price if it is a title that is worth it. I thought Titanfall was. More fool me.

Also, one point not covered is how costs/savings are relative and apply across the board. So whilst inflation means the pound is not worth what it was in actual value 15 years ago, in real terms we are not all struggling to buy a loaf of bread are we? Because the cost of living and the wages we earn roughly balance out, meaning 29.99 feels the same to our wallet in 2012 as it did in 1999. Wage rises have been fairly consistent for many years, and for a good 10 years they were in excess of inflation. But if we take the RRP of CoD:AW on PC on release at £39.99 and compare that to the value of money in 1999 we see the cost of a £29.99 game in 1999 would be the equivalent of £41 in todays money (according to an online inflation calculator). So only a couple of quid off the RRP of AW.

But my point, though, is that for the money we pay, the games produced 15 years ago were far better value for money than what we get now.

Lets look at CoD:AW. It has less content in the base game, dubious multiplayer netcode/server architecture, poor performance and optimisation on the PC platform and then they want further money for DLC for content that would have been included in the base game 15 years ago. The images posted over the page hit the nail on the head. We are paying similar money for the base game but for a 3rd of the content. In that respect it absolutely means that the games we are getting cost more because we are only getting a 3rd of the content for similar money. If you want the rest you have to pay for DLC.

It's the equivalent of if they released Quake 3 in 1999 with only a rocket launcher and a shotgun and 10 maps and forced most people to play P2P instead of releasing it with the 9 weapons it had and the 29 maps + proper dedicated servers.

AW on the PC was a train wreck. It peaked at something like 30,000 players and plumetted to 6,000 after around two weeks.

It isn't much better on console, and players are leaving in their droves.

I'm sure we won't agree, but the cost of gaming has increased by virtue of similar historic RRP's (even taking into account inflation) for less base content and the cost of DLC's being shoved on top.
 
Compare Super mario Kart on the Snes to Mario Kart 8

As easily as you can find examples for your argument I can for mine, I have it a little easier as it is accepted that games are cheaper at the shop but dearer to make hence the 'crisis' around developing, publishing, retailing and related industries that is seeing far less of all of them relying on big hitting franchises to make money.
 
I don't buy DLC generally, unless it's on sale for 70% off (Payday 2 is a good example) or if a game has got a GOTY version and it has all the DLC expansions with it (and it's on sale!).

There are few exceptions though; I will probably buy the Dream Pack DLC for Assetto Corsa when it's out; 10 new community picked cars plus a fully laser scanned Nordschleife. Going by the actual game it will ooze quality and I'll be happy to support a tiny developer.

Other than that I won't. Day One DLC is shameful and a slap in the face to consumers.
 
Compare Super mario Kart on the Snes to Mario Kart 8

As easily as you can find examples for your argument I can for mine, I have it a little easier as it is accepted that games are cheaper at the shop but dearer to make hence the 'crisis' around developing, publishing, retailing and related industries that is seeing far less of all of them relying on big hitting franchises to make money.

Which is why I said we wouldn't agree :)

Bottom line is, though, the quality of the content we are getting is diminished for the price we pay (in my opinion).

It really is that simple in my mind, and I would happily pay more if the content was proper grade A and not rehashed clunky beta quality rubbish.

Why don't they take longer in development to create a stonking game and then up the RRP? I would be happy to pay more if the content of the game warranted it. I accept that it is somewhat subjective, but the overall feeling amongst gamers on both consoles and PC is that modern AAA titles ain't worth a damn. Why do they have to release a new CoD or Assassins Creed game every year? I suspect greedy publishers :)

It used to be a new game within a franchise every few years after the developer had time to create something good. The very fact they can release a game every 12 months says a lot in itself (IE it is a recycled reskin of an existing game, or they are making plenty of money and have the resources to throw at a 12 month cycle business model). Either way, do they deserve my sympathy for the poor quality of their output? I'm not sure they do.

In fact I am not sure there are any excuses for it other than greed. When you find out people like Activision are making net profits of over a billion dollars a year, it is clear they are not struggling for money.

Indeed, for franchises like CoD - they are simply reskins of the same base gameplay/engine with a few extra knobs and whistles, and I seriously doubt they have the overheads of development to which you allude.

Sorry, but they do not get my sympathy. Not when we know that a game can be made well.

Take Skyrim for example. Universally acclaimed and made almost $1.3 billion in sales. Cost $85 million to create and market and was 3.5yrs in development.

Call of Duty Black Ops 2, depending on what you read cost anywhere from $28m - $250m in development and marketing. Yet it took over $1bn in sales revenue in just 15 days. Even after taxes that's a big ass profit for just one title. It was supposedly in development for 2 years.

I accept its a tough industry for smaller more niche developers, but lets face it - given the obscene amounts of money involved with publishers like EA, Ubi and Acti, they don't have any excuse for the games they churn out.
 
I was playing ON Mario kart 8 the other day and I think they have done the dlc right, in a year they will have released 2 lots .. but with 16 new tracks and 4 new characters , new cars etc. I do think that's pretty good , a lot better then releasing 4 new maps every month and charging for them !
 
I struggle with DLC, I'm yet to find DLC I think is worth £££ but some free DLC I've been happy with. I dunno, It's not a good business practice imo, Many many things I don't like about the current business practices.

I'd happily go back to the glory days (think ps1/ps2), but it just wouldn't work.
 
DLC done the right way is actually great. As others have mentioned, fallout DLC was excellent and how it should be done but I think we are seeing more and more of this greedy "cut into the game and make it dlc" happening.
 
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