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Apple M1 CPU

Grantelicious said:
Who cares? Apple will continue to lock their OS down until it is like IOS, so no one will want to use them. They'll continue to fall behind on the graphics side so they'll only ever be used for mobile games. I don't get why everyone is wetting their knickers over them, it only seems impressive because Intel has done nothing for 10 years.
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Excitement comes because of increased competition, even if you don't want to buy a mac, now the industry has to move faster and Intel can't afford to do nothing as they've now fallen behind against two competitors. Other laptop makers will want better performance per watt than what Intel and AMD offer, to remain competitive with macs. So either Intel and AMD will clean up their acts (with AMD doing it very well), or other ARM chips will become more popular in the consumer laptop/desktop market.

As for locking down macOS and turn it into another iOS, we've been hearing that it's imminent every year for the last 15 years, despite all the evidence to the contrary, maybe one of these years it's going to happen though :D
 
Grantelicious said:
Who cares? Apple will continue to lock their OS down until it is like IOS, so no one will want to use them. They'll continue to fall behind on the graphics side so they'll only ever be used for mobile games. I don't get why everyone is wetting their knickers over them, it only seems impressive because Intel has done nothing for 10 years.
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That's an incredibly dismissive attitude, I dislike Apple heavily but (at least in the short term) this is a massive win for end users.
 
Grantelicious said:
Who cares?
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Well I do for a start. I have a 12" Macbook (the original fanless model) which is a perfect travel laptop. Mine has circumnavigated the globe several times over the years. I will now be able to pick up a similar size and weight model but with far more power and battery life. However knowing what V1 to V2 jumps there normally is with Apple stuff I will wait for the M2 version.
 
I think it's more of the impact on the industry this may have. I don't think anybody believes Apple is doing this to save computing, they figure they can make more money going it alone without Intel, and seems like it will. Apple will keep their OS on lock, and ultra high margin devices, that carry a significant premium. Although, for what the new Mac Minis are offering for $700 is about as much value Apple have given in a long time.

It also shows what you can do with the ARM instruction set, and the likes of AMD and Intel need to take ARM seriously. I don't know enough to know how Samsung/Qualcomm fell behind so badly in terms of performance, but maybe someone else will provide a CPU for Windows ARM that is actually good.

I'd love a powerful machine that doesn't double up as a radiator.
 
tommoT.Striker said:
It also shows what you can do with the ARM instruction set, and the likes of AMD and Intel need to take ARM seriously.
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They really don't, they only need to improve their microarchitectures and better optimise for performance/watt. They used to have a lead in performance per watt, they lost their lead about 4 years ago, they've now fallen behind. They need to become competitive again, and AMD has done very well to improve performance/watt in every Zen iteration. Intel needs to wake up.

tommoT.Striker said:
I don't know enough to know how Samsung/Qualcomm fell behind so badly in terms of performance, but maybe someone else will provide a CPU for Windows ARM that is actually good.
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Samsung and Qualcomm never had the skills to come up with their own microarchitecture, and they've always rebranded ARM core designs with very minor modifications. And ARM itself could never compete with Apple and their huge R&D budget.
 
tommoT.Striker said:
Although, for what the new Mac Minis are offering for $700 is about as much value Apple have given in a long time.
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It would be if the Mac Mini supported eGPUs, but obviously their new CPU has some limitations in bandwidth. Without eGPU support what is the point of the Mac mini? Plus it doesn't have GB Ethernet :/ I find the new Mac Mini to be useless, and I own one because they had a sale for £300 a few months ago. Although that said the software is so buggy on Mojave that the eGPU is horrible to use on it, plus if you use Safari it crashes in sleep mode. However you cannot upgrade to Catalina because most of the apps and games don't work on 64bit.

My experience went to crap with Apple after my work iMac died, Apple wanted £1200 for repair and I couldn't get any data off it because of the horrible T2 chip. Meanwhile ASRock replaced my 2014 motherboard for free (only postage costs) last year, 5 years after I bought it! That is customer service, Apple do whatever they can to get out of helping you.

I'm gonna bet Apple lock their Gen 2's to the App Store and claim it's about security. They'll try to merge their IOS crowd into their Mac OS ecosystem, by merging the two stores.

The other thing really is Apple hardware is expensive, you can get a £500 gaming Laptop that'll easily outperform these £1000 Apple ones. Most people I know will never spend more than £300 on a Laptop, they'll spend £1000 on their phone cause they use it all the time... but I don't see the market for Apple really. Gamers will stick with Windows and Apple users will stick with Apple, but I cannot see this growing their share.
 
Grantelicious said:
you can get a £500 gaming Laptop that'll easily outperform these £1000 Apple ones
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That laptop might outperform in graphics if it has a discrete GPU (the M1 GPU is competitive with what, a 1050Ti?) but in terms of CPU, you can't get anything that outperforms this new chip.


Grantelicious said:
I don't see the market for Apple really.
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Strange how they keep making money and growing market share then...
Turns out lots of people are looking for lightweight, powerful hardware with good attention to detail. They're great machines for software developers, designers and all sorts of other folks, as well as being a bit of a status symbol.

I won't be getting one of these, yet, due to the restriction on number of external screens. But I expect they'll sell like hotcakes.
 
Grantelicious said:
It would be if the Mac Mini supported eGPUs, but obviously their new CPU has some limitations in bandwidth. Without eGPU support what is the point of the Mac mini? Plus it doesn't have GB Ethernet :/ I find the new Mac Mini to be useless, and I own one because they had a sale for £300 a few months ago. Although that said the software is so buggy on Mojave that the eGPU is horrible to use on it, plus if you use Safari it crashes in sleep mode. However you cannot upgrade to Catalina because most of the apps and games don't work on 64bit.
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It does support 1G ethernet though, it doesn't support 10G ethernet (yet). There were news of logic boards with 10G ethernet being released. I'm guessing it's just a matter of time.

Third party GPU support though (internal or external), yeah, likely dead, due to the unified memory architecture which is different to how Intel/AMD/Nvidia GPUs work. So you're stuck with Apple, and they're not competitive in gaming compared to RTX 3080 or 6800XT.

Grantelicious said:
I'm gonna bet Apple lock their Gen 2's to the App Store and claim it's about security. They'll try to merge their IOS crowd into their Mac OS ecosystem, by merging the two stores.
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They've said a million times that this isn't going to happen, and Apple has been separating operating systems lately, not merging.

So when Gen 2 comes and macOS is still not locked to the App Store, would you come and say you were wrong? Or would you say you bet it's Gen 3 when it happens? :D Because we've been hearing that "it's next year when it gets locked" since the Mac App Store was released in 2011, and almost 10 years later, macOS is not locked to that store.

Grantelicious said:
The other thing really is Apple hardware is expensive, you can get a £500 gaming Laptop that'll easily outperform these £1000 Apple ones. Most people I know will never spend more than £300 on a Laptop, they'll spend £1000 on their phone cause they use it all the time... but I don't see the market for Apple really. Gamers will stick with Windows and Apple users will stick with Apple, but I cannot see this growing their share.
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Are they going to get a 50% market share in the global PC market? Of course not. But they have their own market that's been slowly growing for more than a decade, despite the industry's turbulent growth and decline cycles. And yeah, they're not ready to compete for the gaming market, obviously. But that's not a market that they were ever competing at.

However, there definitely is a market for lightweight, high-performance laptops with great battery life for work/business use. And this is the most profitable product segment in the entire laptop business.
 
Grantelicious said:
It would be if the Mac Mini supported eGPUs, but obviously their new CPU has some limitations in bandwidth. Without eGPU support what is the point of the Mac mini? Plus it doesn't have GB Ethernet :/ I find the new Mac Mini to be useless, and I own one because they had a sale for £300 a few months ago. Although that said the software is so buggy on Mojave that the eGPU is horrible to use on it, plus if you use Safari it crashes in sleep mode. However you cannot upgrade to Catalina because most of the apps and games don't work on 64bit.

My experience went to crap with Apple after my work iMac died, Apple wanted £1200 for repair and I couldn't get any data off it because of the horrible T2 chip. Meanwhile ASRock replaced my 2014 motherboard for free (only postage costs) last year, 5 years after I bought it! That is customer service, Apple do whatever they can to get out of helping you.

I'm gonna bet Apple lock their Gen 2's to the App Store and claim it's about security. They'll try to merge their IOS crowd into their Mac OS ecosystem, by merging the two stores.

The other thing really is Apple hardware is expensive, you can get a £500 gaming Laptop that'll easily outperform these £1000 Apple ones. Most people I know will never spend more than £300 on a Laptop, they'll spend £1000 on their phone cause they use it all the time... but I don't see the market for Apple really. Gamers will stick with Windows and Apple users will stick with Apple, but I cannot see this growing their share.
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I’m not sure what your on about?

You will not get a £500 ‘gaming laptop’ that out performs an M1 MacBook Air. You won’t even get a laptop tip with a discrete GPU for £500.

There is a huge market for £1000 ‘ultra books’ these days and Apple has grown the Mac year on year forever and most of that they out grew the market.

As for the eGPU, who cares? Apple never really did because there are very few people that actually use one, it’s a niche of a niche that has never really taken off.

The need for one has also diminished with the hardware acceleration that exists within the M1 along side all the Apple optimisations in software.

The only thing you can’t really do well on a Mac is gaming these days and Apple don’t really care about them.

Edit: what’s stopping you from adding 10gbe via TB/USB4?
 
Grantelicious said:
Without eGPU support what is the point of the Mac mini?
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Can you spend some time to really (and I mean thoroughly) explain this sentence, please? I'm not going to put words in your mouth. I'll let you do the talking.

Grantelicious said:
The other thing really is Apple hardware is expensive, you can get a £500 gaming Laptop that'll easily outperform these £1000 Apple ones.
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I'm sorry, again could you be really clear and show us examples? Of gaming laptops for £500 with M1 level benchmark performance while having no fan and delivering 20 hours of battery life?
 
tommoT.Striker said:
Puget did some benchmarks for the M1
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...op-Workstation-for-Adobe-Creative-Cloud-1975/

Ok, so the Zen 3 CPUs are much faster, but the M1 is running the likes of photoshop using Rosetta apparently, thus the large performance gap. In any case would still feel quite snappy.

I'm getting a new Mac Book soon, Intel, the last of its kind, but still interested how ARM will runs Adobe apps. The native Xcode apparently flies when compiling.
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Strange comparison, what would be interesting is comparing the M1 to the 4800U from Ryzen
 
ZP9 said:
Yeah, its why im holding off on one for now. all macbooks in dire need of a design update
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Likewise. As good as the new chip clearly is you get the impression that this has been all the focus. They will now look at how to update the form factor to take into account the reduced cooling requirements. I expect the next Macbook Air will be even thinner.
 
Royal Fleet said:
Likewise. As good as the new chip clearly is you get the impression that this has been all the focus. They will now look at how to update the form factor to take into account the reduced cooling requirements. I expect the next Macbook Air will be even thinner.
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Definitely, I want to see the bezel reduced and the 13" screen upgraded to a 14" with the same form factor. These macbooks are only half new in the sense that the internals are all new but the external is the same as the older models.
 
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