There's not going to be Bootcamp but there will be VMware Fusion.
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Apple M1 CPU
- Thread starter benparker
- Start date
Doesn't fusion currently rely on x86 instructions? It may not actually and just run in a shell. What's your opinion dude? I know you are a mac user - You in?
Yep it's a standard hypervisor. On ARM it would need to emulate x86 in software.
Yeah, and in significant enough quantities to be relevant outside of a small slice of the mobile market.
Fusion will work on Apple SoC. Probably not straight away without the use of Rosetta but it's coming.
https://twitter.com/VMwareFusion/status/1326229094648832000
I'm completely in, my work MacBook Pro constantly sits at 60-70 degrees plus, fans going and it hardly ever boosts above stock frequency. When I use it on my lap it's just too hot. Whether we get replacement 16" MacBooks with AIC or not I don't know, I hope so as I really am not a fan of using Windows 10 and for any non-macOS pieces of software (incredibly rare, these days) I can just use a VM or my gaming rig.
It comes from Apples own benchmark guide and is used to justify the claim.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive
Its obviously a single threaded benchmark.
Its 8% faster than a 10900K, the 5950X is 20% faster than the 10900K in Cinebench R20 ST.
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-ryzen-9-5900x-and-5950x-review,10.html
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They're not lying, just being very selective with their facts.
The marketing around this is designed to make people think this is top end performance.
They will lose customers because of this but they gain further control over software, hardware and all the costs involved. In the long run it sounds like a huge win for them, a few legacy customers being lost in the process is a small price to pay (probably?).
Seems to be expected, but no eGPU support: https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/11/10/apple-silicon-m1-macs-do-not-support-egpus
For the average user, things like bootcamp won't matter much to them. But they will need to do something for the 16" MBP/MP to make it tempting for more technical users as these are the devices that usually have more power and a little more flexibility. I don't think the M1's IO offers enough bandwidth to meet the expectation for these devices.
For the average user, things like bootcamp won't matter much to them. But they will need to do something for the 16" MBP/MP to make it tempting for more technical users as these are the devices that usually have more power and a little more flexibility. I don't think the M1's IO offers enough bandwidth to meet the expectation for these devices.
Selective? Well, 5 days after Anand Benchmarked Zen 3, why is that not on the charts? Quite selective.
Apple have beaten Intel in Single Threaded in a specific benchmark, that much is true.
But for Apple's claim of "The World's Fastest Cores" to hold true you can't ignore AMD, especially given that AMD's Zen 3 core has a much wider margin over Intel than Apple claims to have, and they will be putting their best foot forward.
Kia can claim to have the fastest car if they ignore everything that's faster, all these chips need independently benchmarked before we can take Apple's claims as fact.
But for Apple's claim of "The World's Fastest Cores" to hold true you can't ignore AMD, especially given that AMD's Zen 3 core has a much wider margin over Intel than Apple claims to have, and they will be putting their best foot forward.
Kia can claim to have the fastest car if they ignore everything that's faster, all these chips need independently benchmarked before we can take Apple's claims as fact.
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They are on 5nm so they can actually use more transistors right now until everyone plays catch-up.
Apple have a full ARM architecture license so their designs are very different from the vanilla off the shelf ARM ones, hence the large performance gains.
It's irrelevant to end users on where you choose to draw the line on the semantic debate on what a SoC is. Benchmarks beat semantics.
These chips are being used in the same chassis so they are a direct replacement for the Intel parts.
Zen 3, the King is dead!
I think you're missing the point of my post. Huge leaps in performance per transistor are rare if not impossible with the highly optimised architectures we currently use, so I seriously doubt M1 is going to thrash Zen 3.
If it uses more transistors then Zen 3, then it should have better performance.
Keep in mind AMD designed K12 (ARM) and Zen side by side, and chose to shelve K12 - instead leveraging the better aspects of ARM within Zen.
What we're likely to see is a device highly optimised for Apple's ecosystem, not unlike the XB and PS SoC's, which should give excellent performance in the targeted platforms and workloads. Outside of those platforms and workloads, it will probably be merely good.
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IMO Zen 3 is faster, certainly they beat Intel by a wider margin that Apple show here, that's why they are not on this slide. You can't claim to be the fastest if you compare your core to one that's faster.
Rosetta won't work - it's an OS abstraction layer to convert x86 Mac functions to Arm. To run x86 Windows apps will have to run software emulation.
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I will, if and when I need to be mobile again. My java workflow should still be fine, linux (ARM) virtualisation (for docker) should be along soon if it's not there already. I like MacOS and I've had a bit of a geek-crush on ARM ever since I started messing around with debian on embedded platforms in about '05.
Shame about lack of eGPU support though, I hope that,'s a software/driver issue that can be fixed eventually (right now I doubt radeon have an ARM driver...)
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Intels X86 license explicitly warns against emulation of x86 instructions. Should be interesting to watch it play out. If apple decide to do this there is no doubt going to be some interesting legal battles. I am sure Intel even released a statement recently along the lines of "we will defend our ip vigorously"
Not sure Apple particularly need to do much, they could just leave it to 3rd parties.
Back in the dawn of time Connectix Virtual PC used to be used to emulate x86 Windows on PowerPC Macs.
QEmu and Bochs are potentially options for complete software emulation.
Interesting not my specialist subject for sure but ill be watching from the sidelines. I am sure if any IP litigation happens that I will know pretty quickly.
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Microsoft already do this for windows ARM devices, they must have either found a way around it or paid Intel for a special license. I'm sure it's not beyond Apple to do the same.
But much like apples Rosetta that isn't complete emulation of an x86 CPU - it's a software layer replacing a lot of x86 specific windows calls and converting them to their arm equivalent. Or at least that's how I understand it.
They don't though, do they? Windows arm devices can't run x86 apps. I thought that was why they run the silly cut down version of windows.