Soldato
I literally just bought a brand new core i9 MBP 16" an was hoping it would see me good for the next 5 years
You are still within your 14 day return window
Apple to replace Intel and move to ARM - *** Confirmed as "Apple Silicon" ***
- Thread starter UberTiger
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You are still within your 14 day return window
Soldato
I literally just bought a brand new core i9 MBP 16" an was hoping it would see me good for the next 5 years
You are still within your 14 day return window
Also that MBP is going to be absolutely fine for years to come, they're not just dumping support for x86 or anything, it'll be a good long while until they do that. The first gen of any new technology is always a bit of a shaky one to go on to anyway.
There's no reason it won't?I literally just bought a brand new core i9 MBP 16" an was hoping it would see me good for the next 5 years
I've just ordered a Mac Mini.
Apple have said they'll support Intel for "years to come" but who knows how many that is? It could be just two or three years of supported OS updates after which you're SOL and won't get any more updates as they'll all be for Apple Silicon based devices, meaning you'd have to shell out for a new one and the Intel one has now tanked in value. Considering they say they'll have the products transitioned within two years leads me to believe it won't be long after that when they drop Intel support.
Soldato
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- 10 Apr 2004
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Apple are very good usually with Software updates (Late 2013 Macs are still supported!), plus as given they stated the transition is going to take two years (so 2022) I would hazard a guess at 2027 at a minimum before they finally drop x86 support.
If I had just splashed out I wouldn’t be thinking of returning it. Plus the first ten ARM 16” is probably going to be a bit flakey.
The difference is that a 2013 MBP and a 2020 MBP are essentially the same from a CPU perspective because Intel has stagnated over the last half a decade. There isn't really anything from an OS perspective that a 2013 CPU can't do where a 2020 can. The same cant be said between a 2020 MBP and the new ARM version.
To me, 'years to come' could mean as little as two.
To me, 'years to come' could mean as little as two.
Soldato
- Joined
- 10 Apr 2004
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It’s not just about CPUs...
I suspect my Late 2013 will be dropped next time round because of the GPU.
I’d put a hefty chunk of money on Intel support until 2025 at the very least.
I suspect my Late 2013 will be dropped next time round because of the GPU.
I’d put a hefty chunk of money on Intel support until 2025 at the very least.
Apple announced the transition from PowerPC to Intel in mid-2005. The PowerPC macs received OS updates until 2010 when it was dropped in Lion. But they continued to receive security updates on Snow Leopard until 2011.
There are now far more Intel-based macs out there than there ever was with PowerPC, and Apple is now a much larger and stronger company. So there's no reason to believe the support will be any worse than the previous transition, and a lot of reasons to believe it will be a lot better.
I wouldn't worry about it at all.
Don
Something like the below shows what is possible
80 Core 3.3Ghz 250W chips currently shipping, with 128 Core chips targeted for next year
https://www.servethehome.com/ampere-altra-max-targets-a-128-core-arm-cpu-shipping-in-2021/
80 Core 3.3Ghz 250W chips currently shipping, with 128 Core chips targeted for next year
https://www.servethehome.com/ampere-altra-max-targets-a-128-core-arm-cpu-shipping-in-2021/
Yeah.
It's easy to imagine a scenario in 2 years where the iPhones and non-Pro iPads get the normal A16 chip, and then there will be a number of chips for various products, e.g.
A16X - 4 big, 4 small core for iPad Pro and Macbook Airs with integrated Apple GPUs
8 big, 4 small core variant for smaller Macbook Pros with integrated Apple GPUs
12 big, 4 small core variant for larger Macbook Pros and Mac Minis, with dedicated AMD GPUs
32 core variant for iMacs with dedicated AMD GPUs
64-128 core variants for Mac Pros with multiple dedicated AMD GPUs
There are ARM chips already in the market with this sort of configuration, and there's no reason to think Apple would be unable/unwilling to go down this road.
Apple high performance cores (on A13 @ TSMC 7nm process) are more or less 3w at full load. This allows an 8-core variant to be roughly 25w (similar to parts used for 13-inch MBPs). Also it means they can use a 32-core variant to stay within the 100w power budget of the iMac. An "all-in" 250w for the Mac Pro line can have something in the region of 80 cores (more likely closer to 128 given that it's a few years away).
First benchmarks are out for the A12Z: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/06/29/rosetta-2-benchmarks-a12z-mac-mini/
Basically, x86 Geekbench test ran through Rosetta 2 emulation, there's about a 30% drop in the benchmarks compared to running it natively (iPad Pro tests on iOS). These chips are also underclocked compared to iPad Pro. Apple is trying very hard to underplay the performance of their silicon right now, presumably for a big reveal later this year.
Obviously this is beta software on beta hardware. But this sets the baseline expectations for the performance overhead of x86 emulation. It's likely going to be at most 30%, and likely much less. In other words, the transition might be a lot smoother than initially anticipated.
Basically, x86 Geekbench test ran through Rosetta 2 emulation, there's about a 30% drop in the benchmarks compared to running it natively (iPad Pro tests on iOS). These chips are also underclocked compared to iPad Pro. Apple is trying very hard to underplay the performance of their silicon right now, presumably for a big reveal later this year.
Obviously this is beta software on beta hardware. But this sets the baseline expectations for the performance overhead of x86 emulation. It's likely going to be at most 30%, and likely much less. In other words, the transition might be a lot smoother than initially anticipated.
The concern is that the 30% drop is (I assume?) compared to the current Intel CPU's? Ryzen 4000 "Renoir" is now landing in many laptops and is absolutely spanking Intel. For example a Ryzen 4800u eight core 15w laptop CPU is beating an Intel 9750H six core 45w. So that 30% drop is, at best, a 50% drop compared to Renoir. It's significant. In two years both Apple and AMD will be faster but who will advance most?
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The processor is running quicker then the benchmark shows due to the benchmark software being translated from x86 code to apple silicone code.
Also the processor has four cores disabled and the four remaining ones are under clocked compared to iPad Pro.
And even then it’s 2 year old processor architecture.
considering this I’m blown away
Also the processor has four cores disabled and the four remaining ones are under clocked compared to iPad Pro.
And even then it’s 2 year old processor architecture.
considering this I’m blown away
The 30% drop is compared to its own native ARM benchmark (on iPad Pro), not Intel or AMD. This is with only 4 cores enabled, beta software on 2-year-old hardware that wasn't even made for this purpose.
I agree that we shouldn't compare it (meaning, first ARM consumer Mac) against the Intel ones it replaces, it should he compared against the best CPUs in the market, which are likely to be AMD.
The real test though is with Zen 3 mobile CPUs which will come in 2021. So A15-based Macs vs Ryzen 5000 mobile.
So after just taking delivery of a brand new Intel 16" Core i9 with 32Gb ram and an AMD 5500M 8Gb I am starting to wonder if I should be returning it. I bought it as a managed to wreck my 2014 MBP with a liquid spill hence the need to buy this machine I am typing on (and loving) right now. I have until the 3rd July to fill in the returns form and take things from there but I really do not know what to do, I just laid out £3300 for this machine and was hoping it would see me through the next 4 to 5 years but now I am starting to wonder. Arrrrggghh!
Caporegime
I wouldn't have any concerns with longevity, however it may not hold as much value when you come to move it on in 4-5 years, if that is something you care about.
Also with your spec I suspect you need the heavy lifting, I can't see Apple having an ARM based Macbook that will offer the same level of performance for a while.