Apple vs Samsung, court orders Samsung to show Apple 5 new phones

Alpherah said:
The korean ruling is a complete joke, check Fosspatents for the reason why but basically Korea change/make laws/rules for the benefit of Samsung.

Why? because Samsung's mobile department is over 20% of S. Korea's GDP and they employ something like 40% of the countries workforce.

To expand on the ruling - the 2 patents Apple 'infringes' are Standards essential, but Korea have decided they no longer wish to recognise the FRAND nature and have allowed Samsung to charge Apple whatever they see fit, or Apple will be banned from selling their products (iPhone 4, iPhone 4s, iPad 2).
Samsung infringes on one non essential patent, allowing them to software patch it and get around without problems.

And people here are bemoaning the fact Apple are 'bound to win, its the US!'
Do me a favour ..

-edit-
Should add, not the first time - similar has happened involving LG being given obscene preferential treatment in their own country and resulted in various companies such as Toshiba pulling out of the country all together.
Click to expand...

I very much doubt anyone here would say it is fair what has happened and it is totally out of order, however everyone knows that samsung is some what untoucable in Korea and the outcome wont really affect anyone. else. However on the other hand if Apple wins they will easily use the same patents to take out the rest of the Android OEM's, and the american market is huge compared to Korean which is more of a rounding error in terms of apples profits.

Personally I think Samsung did rip off Apple with the design of the SGS, no one could really argue differently, and they should pay Apple some money. and this should all be over with, some of the patents like the bounce back effect I believe are infringed, the rest is not very clear, and the tap to zoom and anything around multi-touch should be made in-valid.
 
Just had a read of the Fosspatents article, and whilst I'm not going to say any Korean court is going to be completely impartial I'm not sure it's as bad as he's implying, or that the US courts are going to be any better.

I also struggle to read anything from Florian Mueller without a tanker full of salt, I'm just never quite sure what company has paid him more this day/week/month...

Anyway, the article, essentially it seems to boil down to 2 things:

Samsung winning 2 injunctions is wrong because they haven't won any injunctions anywhere else. Because of course the court systems and judgements in other countries with other patents and designs are exactly the same...

Also that Apple products shouldn't be banned because the patents were FRAND, he calls it extortion at the beginning of the article but there's not exactly much detail on what this extortion was and it seems to come across as saying that any FRAND patent can't be granted an injunction against, which I'm not sure I agree with.

I don't know the details beyond that on the Korea case but I have read a small amount more on the US case which ultimately involves similar patents from Samsung.

Now in that case Samsung lawyers state, and Apple don't seem to argue against this initial bit much, that Samsung approached Apple and informed them they were infringing on the patent and that the fee was (iirc) 2.5% of the unit cost.

At that point it's claimed that Apple said 'no thanks' and walked away from discussions, and here we are today with Samsung counter-suing Apple over this.

Now with the US case it seems like Apple took the approach that because they were FRAND and they didn't feel like paying that much (I've yet to see an argument that the 2.5% was any different to other companies? Although Apple claim it should be on the cost of the chip rather than handset) so they could just infringe the patent with no way of Samsung doing anything because it's standards essential...

If that is the case, and potentially if Apple showed the same (claimed... :p) attitude around infringing standards essential patents then I'd be happy that they got banned for it, FRAND is there to stop companies from witholding the licence, not in any way to stop people being paid for their contribution.

But who knows really, what we're privy to is so small we just feed on the tiny scraps of information and get to rage/gloat at every ruling :)
 
It shouldnt be anywhere near 2.5% of the unit cost. The chip that has the infringement on as a whole doesn't cost 2.5% of the unit cost and the chip is made up of far more than just those infringements.

So apple should say sod of to that price. It very much is extortion on a FRAND patent.
 
Alpherah said:
The korean ruling is a complete joke, check Fosspatents for the reason why but basically Korea change/make laws/rules for the benefit of Samsung.

Why? because Samsung's mobile department is over 20% of S. Korea's GDP and they employ something like 40% of the countries workforce.

To expand on the ruling - the 2 patents Apple 'infringes' are Standards essential, but Korea have decided they no longer wish to recognise the FRAND nature and have allowed Samsung to charge Apple whatever they see fit, or Apple will be banned from selling their products (iPhone 4, iPhone 4s, iPad 2).
Samsung infringes on one non essential patent, allowing them to software patch it and get around without problems.

And people here are bemoaning the fact Apple are 'bound to win, its the US!'
Do me a favour ..

-edit-
Should add, not the first time - similar has happened involving LG being given obscene preferential treatment in their own country and resulted in various companies such as Toshiba pulling out of the country all together.
Click to expand...

First, your figures are complete rubbish. 20% of South Korea's GDP would be over $200bn and Samsung mobile total sales are only a fraction of that.
40% of S.Korea's workforce would be 10 million employees which is about 30 times more people than Samsung employees worldwide across all it's different businesses.

FRAND vs non FRAND just shows how daft the system is. Invent something useful and you can't really profit from it, but patent something daft and if someone infringes on it you can try and force them to pay $10-20 per device and make an absolute killing.
 
Robbo said:
A fast verdict would seemingly favour the prosecution, but I'm not sure.
Click to expand...

But then if the damages were large would everyone agree so quickly?

And with 700 decisions maybe they said the patents are rubbish that would make the decision quicker.
 
If Apple win they'll have free reign to try and take out every competitor in the market, at least in America. It's what that bitter old fool Jobs wanted as soon as he faced some competition.
 
To recap, this jury hasn't asked a single question since Wednesday. It hasn't asked for clarification on a single element of jury instructions, it hasn't asked to have any testimony re-read.... nothing.
Click to expand...

Seems...well....odd.
 
Glaucus said:
Jury surly just returns a verdict and judge sets damges?
Click to expand...

The Verge said:
Question 22: total damages. Buried in the middle of this lengthy document is the heart of the entire case: a dollar sign, a blank line, and a simple question. "What is the total dollar amount that Apple is entitled to receive from Samsung on the claims on which you have ruled in favor of Apple?"
Click to expand...

http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/23/3260463/apple-samsung-jury-verdict-form-nightmare
 
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