I dunno but low powered small car, often quite old, for a new drivers means if an accident does happen the consequences, especially for passengers, is likely to be more serious than if they were driving something newer and better specced.
Are cars getting too fast?
- Thread starter Dominic-Toretto
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I dunno but low powered small car, often quite old, for a new drivers means if an accident does happen the consequences, especially for passengers, is likely to be more serious than if they were driving something newer and better specced.
Soldato
Mat Watson (Carwow) has a few videos of the £60k Hyundai IONIQ 5N 4 door family car being almost as fast as (or occasionally quicker than) Lambos and AMG-GT Mercs etc from 0-100mph (via their 1/4 mile drag race) which is where I would guess most people would be using the car. Thats a great look for EV's but brings us back to the almost "Lotus Carlton" style discussion of - are the roads 'safe' with thousands more everyday cars now having 600hp+ and instant torque all whilst being driven by normal (non-car) people?
Normal non car people are not all rushing out buying 640bhp £60,000+ cars (if comments about dealers sacking off demo cars in another thread are true, it sounds like virtually nobody is ordering the 5N, car people or otherwise).
Even if their interest is piqued by seeing the 5N out drag a Lambo, the 'normal non car person' is far more likely to be driving out of the dealership with a 225bhp Ioniq 5 Premium Long Range or something.
The same way people weren't all rushing out buying RS6s as everyday cars for the last 20 years, they were probably buying 2.0TDIs with S Line body kits.
Soldato
My "Lotus Carlton" comment seems to have been misunderstood I think - I was referring to the hysteria that the Lotus Carlton caused when an "everyday" car was suddenly faster than supercars, and yet thats all it was hysteria, with no effect on day to day driving for the majority despite the very loud and public (discussed in the House of Commons & by Police Chiefs) stories published at the time of its release. So by referring to that car, I was comparing that to what we're seeing now, with the same type of "won't someone think of the children" story but updated to EV's and for the exact reasons you pointed out.
With the Lotus Carlton it was the top speed which caused the panic. Police just couldn't catch it.
The 5N will do 160mph, which is quick but police interceptors will catch that, even the old Volvo T5s will. The Lotus Carlton cracks 190 with tuning.
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Soldato
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maybe a police car could catch it technically..... but there is no way the police would drive like maniacs in a high speed chase, they would surely leave it to a helicopter.
also just to be a pedant....... if i wanted to actually escape the police in a high speed chase, i would not be doing it on a highway, it would be in a quieter residential area with more places to hide, and there is where the acceleration and the quiteness of the ionic would have a clear advantage over the old carlton (as good of a car as it was back in the day)
It became famous as the car of choice for escaping the police. There is a well known one (40 RA) and they never found the driver of it. Once on the motorway it was gone. There wasn't as many cameras back then though. Even modern police choppers will only go about 150-160mph so a fast car in a straight line will outrun them.
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Soldato
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my nextdoor but one neighbour had one when i was a kid...... maybe it was him..... respectable business man by day, scally joyrider by night?
or maybe it was like the ghost car on that song by Kavinsky (pacific coast highway) (true story apparently)
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Soldato
Well that is down to the nut holding onto the steering wheel. Some just don't have an ability to drive a car irrespective of it's performance.
I've been seeing a lot more of that kind of nervous driving in the last few years than I used to :/
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Don
Car culture has changed forever, with the advent of "performance for all". It's the reason the "old school" modification scene has all but died. It's all remaps, coil-overs, wraps and wheels nowadays!
I used to enjoy the idea that I had a "faster car" and I love driving fast when I can. However now I simply won't buy and ride a 1000cc bike, because I am simply NEVER going to be able to ride it hard on the roads without endangering myself of someone else. Even my 600cc sports bike is really too fast for pressing on anywhere on the roads. The most fun is on a 400cc, or even a sorted little 125cc where you can actually get somewhere close to wringing the neck of the machine without immediately hitting warp speed. Its rewarding at a much lower speed/danger level. At some point, having that level of performance on tap is just a danger, especially if it's in the reach of nearly everyone! I think that's how I feel with these electric monsters - why bother?..
I recently took my Mrs' Corsa VXR on a track day and was comfortably slower than almost everyone on the straight, but I had a ball chucking it around Cadwell (even with the knowledge this was my wife's beloved daily car!) and it was holding its own around the corners with most stuff that was not some epic race machine, and I am hardly Lauda!
Maybe I am getting old, but the fact that performance is now so widely available, means it's appeal has greatly diminished.
What I would say is that I have had to adjust my riding on the bikes when on the roads now. I used to be able to pull up to any lights, and be confident to pull away promptly and be sure that nothing will be in my way to take up position 2 quickly. Perhaps sometimes it was a lambo or modified car, or certainly something with a great thundering exhaust and knew to be aware.. One day when I absentmindedly pulled up next to a bland looking SUV at the lights in Reading and found them silently riding my rear quarter as I had a cursory glance before I went to move over. It was quite a surprise! (It was some massive Tesla!)
I used to enjoy the idea that I had a "faster car" and I love driving fast when I can. However now I simply won't buy and ride a 1000cc bike, because I am simply NEVER going to be able to ride it hard on the roads without endangering myself of someone else. Even my 600cc sports bike is really too fast for pressing on anywhere on the roads. The most fun is on a 400cc, or even a sorted little 125cc where you can actually get somewhere close to wringing the neck of the machine without immediately hitting warp speed. Its rewarding at a much lower speed/danger level. At some point, having that level of performance on tap is just a danger, especially if it's in the reach of nearly everyone! I think that's how I feel with these electric monsters - why bother?..
I recently took my Mrs' Corsa VXR on a track day and was comfortably slower than almost everyone on the straight, but I had a ball chucking it around Cadwell (even with the knowledge this was my wife's beloved daily car!) and it was holding its own around the corners with most stuff that was not some epic race machine, and I am hardly Lauda!
Maybe I am getting old, but the fact that performance is now so widely available, means it's appeal has greatly diminished.
What I would say is that I have had to adjust my riding on the bikes when on the roads now. I used to be able to pull up to any lights, and be confident to pull away promptly and be sure that nothing will be in my way to take up position 2 quickly. Perhaps sometimes it was a lambo or modified car, or certainly something with a great thundering exhaust and knew to be aware.. One day when I absentmindedly pulled up next to a bland looking SUV at the lights in Reading and found them silently riding my rear quarter as I had a cursory glance before I went to move over. It was quite a surprise! (It was some massive Tesla!)
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Soldato
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i hear what you are saying, however there is a risk here of going down the road which is that other drivers being able to keep up with you means somehow they are at fault.
there was a poster, possibly in this thread, possibly another complaining about a car which he felt was in the wrong because it was going too fast for him to overtake them in his BMW and cut infront of them on a roundabout.
apparently it was the fault of the other driver for being in a bland but fast EV and not him in his BMW, despite him admitting he was in the wrong lane and was trying to cut in front!.
IF a performance vehicle is ok for 1 person to have, then it should be ok for everyone to have.... EVs are a great equaliser in that regard. Now if people want to argue that cars are getting to fast across the board, and ALL cars need to be neutered, then its a fair argument................
but imo if its ok for a ferrari costing 300k to sub 4 second 0-60, then it is ok for a £50k tesla to do it as well.
i fully agree that there is a lot to be said for having a smaller less powered car that you can give the beans to and drive on the limit at a much lower speed than a high performance car which only really get interesting at illegal speeds.
there was a poster, possibly in this thread, possibly another complaining about a car which he felt was in the wrong because it was going too fast for him to overtake them in his BMW and cut infront of them on a roundabout.
apparently it was the fault of the other driver for being in a bland but fast EV and not him in his BMW, despite him admitting he was in the wrong lane and was trying to cut in front!.
IF a performance vehicle is ok for 1 person to have, then it should be ok for everyone to have.... EVs are a great equaliser in that regard. Now if people want to argue that cars are getting to fast across the board, and ALL cars need to be neutered, then its a fair argument................
but imo if its ok for a ferrari costing 300k to sub 4 second 0-60, then it is ok for a £50k tesla to do it as well.
i fully agree that there is a lot to be said for having a smaller less powered car that you can give the beans to and drive on the limit at a much lower speed than a high performance car which only really get interesting at illegal speeds.
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Associate
May sound quite philosophical but I think it was inevitable with life speeding up in every other sense 
A Ferrari is better designed to handle the power though and it will certainly be able to stop quicker. Teslas are known for being under-braked. Good brakes, suspension, chassis, etc are very expensive and try selling it to the average modern driver who only cares about the resolution of the touchscreen.
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I'd rather an inexperienced driver in a Tesla rather than say a Ferrari, particular a modern one.
Having driven Tesla's and most the Ferrari range, the Tesla is a point and shoot car, extremely quick in the 20-60mph range based on having a Model 3 Performance for a day but not remotely close to a supercar once beyond 80mph, but the Tesla takes no skill to drive quick, it has huge grip (AWD) and instant torque so anyone can pilot one quickly and easily, now of course anyone trying to bend the laws of physics will crash but you need to drive one very hard to bend one or be a total plonker.
Anyone jumping into say a Ferrari 488, 296 or 812 and tried to drive in the same manner would probably end in a crash pretty quick. Big power RWD cars which command respect, well driven they are very quick and if your somewhere with no speed limits a Tesla won't see where any modern Ferrari went due to the 100-200mph performance, only a Plaid is keeping up.
A to B I could drive a Model 3 Performance as long as speeds are kept under 100mph quicker than I could say drive an 812 Superfast, but the Tesla for me was boring, it is very much a one trick pony, no pun intended towards the Stallion whereas the 812 is just a proper car, driving one at 30mph is more fun, more engaging than driving a Tesla at 100mph.
Also I will always advocate that faster never means better, my E30 325i Sport is way more fun to drive than any Tesla, ok the old BMW is embarrassingly slow compared to modern stuff but if your a true driver and enjoy what makes driving a sports car so good you will totally get it.
I feel EV's are great as city / short commute cars and if you can always charge at home / work to get cheaper electrons.
But as a fun car, a drivers car to enjoy on the road, sorry but I find them boring, as just performance is only one part of the equation of a fun car, can still have fun in a slow car, MX5 been a prime example or a low powered Caterham.
For me biggest issue with modern cars is the weight, not the performance.
Weight is the enemy and a new M5 weighs more than 2.5 tonnes, it is getting somewhat absurd, a fun road car should ideally be around 1500kg or less, track car under 1000kg.
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Soldato
Please don’t think Teslas are the EV driving experience.
My mate in a Cross Tourismo Taycan was loving that and was surprised at my ipace compared to his mapped 335d, he’s got litre bikes and currently a Hyabusa. When we jumped in the model Y we were bored after a few miles and headed back early, just completely devoid of any character as well as excruciating inverter whine in your ear whenever you went full throttle.
The weight conversion is always one that pops up so I’m looking forward to Nasher having to peel the keys from my hands for my driving machine that is a 835kg Honda Insight…
To even be comparing a £50k Tesla to a Ferrari is a bit bonkers to even start with!
My mate in a Cross Tourismo Taycan was loving that and was surprised at my ipace compared to his mapped 335d, he’s got litre bikes and currently a Hyabusa. When we jumped in the model Y we were bored after a few miles and headed back early, just completely devoid of any character as well as excruciating inverter whine in your ear whenever you went full throttle.
The weight conversion is always one that pops up so I’m looking forward to Nasher having to peel the keys from my hands for my driving machine that is a 835kg Honda Insight…
To even be comparing a £50k Tesla to a Ferrari is a bit bonkers to even start with!
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I remember seeing a helicopter speed enforcement sign. Might have been on the Cat and Fiddle.
I thought cool, I'm not in an helicopter so I'm good to go.