Are earnings too low / living costs getting too high??

[Psycho Sonny]

Funnily enough my brother and I were talking about this the other night, because both of us could invest in property if we chose to. He plans to. He said to me, "I don't like it any more than you do, but there are two types of people in this world: those who get screwed and those who do the screwing. I'm not going to get screwed."

I don't agree with him.

LMAO.

So you could have a very comfortable life but you choose not to because you don't think it's right to buy homes to rent out?

You do know people aren't being forced at gunpoint to rent a home? They could always move somewhere else. Landlords aren't screwing anyone they provide a service which nobody is being forced to use. Seriously your the one with the issue here not landlords. More fool you for thinking your doing something morally right here. Your moral calculator needs adjusting as it's currently broken.

Also the whole I've lived here my whole life argument is getting boring now. So what? People have moved from the UK to Australia, Spain, etc for years. Canada is the ultimate place to live IMO. Cheap large houses, plenty of jobs. Yet people don't want to move 50 miles away because they have family nearby. Seriously? I know people who have uplifted their household to Dubai, etc for work, etc. I know someone now on contract in South Korea, whilst his wife and kids are in London.

How many people have immigrated to the UK from Carribean, Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe, etc to look for a better life. Yet people don't want to move 50 miles away for a better life.? The British stole their riches from the rest of the world and now they are crying about foreign investors buying up property now that it's 20% cheaper. Stop whinging about it and go do something about it.

 

[dr_volki]

Also the whole I've lived here my whole life argument is getting boring now. So what? People have moved from the UK to Australia, Spain, etc for years. Canada is the ultimate place to live IMO. Cheap large houses, plenty of jobs. Yet people don't want to move 50 miles away because they have family nearby. Seriously? I know people who have uplifted their household to Dubai, etc for work, etc. I know someone now on contract in South Korea, whilst his wife and kids are in London.

How many people have immigrated to the UK from Carribean, Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe, etc to look for a better life. Yet people don't want to move 50 miles away for a better life.? The British stole their riches from the rest of the world and now they are crying about foreign investors buying up property now that it's 20% cheaper. Stop whinging about it and go do something about it.

it's not as black and white as you make it out to be.

certain people live in specific places for different reasons. it may be due to work location, specific schools for the kids and so on.
or are you now suggesting i should move 50miles away so my commute is now 75miles each way?

 

[Psycho Sonny]

it's not as black and white as you make it out to be.

certain people live in specific places for different reasons. it may be due to work location, specific schools for the kids and so on.
or are you now suggesting i should move 50miles away so my commute is now 75miles each way?

if you cannot afford to buy any closer then what options do you have?

change job, increase your income (and/or lower your outgoings) or ask someone for help.

my grandad moved from punjab to gravesend then many years later to glasgow for a better life. one of his sons then went the opposite way of glasgow to london for a better life.

specific school for the kids? well i know people who went to top schools and did nothing with their lives. i also know people who went to okay schools and made something of themselves. it's down to the kid more than the school IMO. also if your sacrificing for the sake of your kids schooling then stop whinging and enjoy life with your kids. you have chosen to do it to yourself for a hope of a better future for your kids. you made that decision.

again it comes down to what can you afford, if you cannot afford everything then you will need to sacrifice things.

 

[Freefaller]

Sometimes moving is a fantastic opportunity too. I don't think I could live in one place for the rest of my life and have been fortunate to move around a bit.

I'd like to live abroad again for a few years - if not longer, but I do have a family to consider so it's less straightforward, but it is not insurmountable.

 

[krooton]

I wouldn't mind so much if there was an M25 style train line around London.

I work in Surrey, my gf works in Essex, and we live in north London. I have to travel through central, then also SW Train to to work.

We both LOVE our respective jobs, and get paid well.

When we settle down in the future to have kids, we will only be able to look in Middlesex/Herts do to our travel needs. This will force us to both get cars (additional cost that we'd rather not have) to be able to journey to work, increasing costs and commute time even further. If there were a way to travel around London by train without having to go through central it would be great, but the cost of a season ticket to london, travel through london, and a season ticket from london to surrey/essex would push costs way too high, so cars it will have to be.

 

[dr_volki]

if you cannot afford to buy any closer then what options do you have?

change job, increase your income (and/or lower your outgoings) or ask someone for help.

Your last option is what everyone is doing that i know personally.
Usually the parents stumping up the cash for a deposit.

Sometimes moving is a fantastic opportunity too. I don't think I could live in one place for the rest of my life and have been fortunate to move around a bit.

I'd like to live abroad again for a few years - if not longer, but I do have a family to consider so it's less straightforward, but it is not insurmountable.

I'd love to move abroad again and have done so in the past.
However being married means its not just down to me otherwise i may would've moved back to germany or switzerland by now

 

[dowie]

just being rational here, from what i can tell / see the housing market doesn't pose that many risks anymore due to supply / demand and yes i can see the risks you have mentioned before.
however if you are saying there is plenty of uncertainty in the housing market for the next x number of years. how come people aren't pulling out? (may be they are i don't know, but would happy to hear your thoughts )
so the logical answer to me would be it's still a more stable investment compared to other investments.

more stable than what though - the other poster was comparing it to savings accounts where the govt will bail you out

I'm saying two things - there are the risks already mentioned, in general, when investing in property

I've also mentioned that the assumption that property prices will carry on going up over the next 5 years isn't obvious (I'd say the same about most 5 year periods)

this has nothing to do with making any predictions, though apparently prices did fall in January

 

[Freefaller]

I'd love to move abroad again and have done so in the past.
However being married means its not just down to me otherwise i may would've moved back to germany or switzerland by now

Yeah bloody women and kids grrrr

 

[antijoke]

I wouldn't mind so much if there was an M25 style train line around London.

I work in Surrey, my gf works in Essex, and we live in north London. I have to travel through central, then also SW Train to to work.

We both LOVE our respective jobs, and get paid well.

When we settle down in the future to have kids, we will only be able to look in Middlesex/Herts do to our travel needs. This will force us to both get cars (additional cost that we'd rather not have) to be able to journey to work, increasing costs and commute time even further. If there were a way to travel around London by train without having to go through central it would be great, but the cost of a season ticket to london, travel through london, and a season ticket from london to surrey/essex would push costs way too high, so cars it will have to be.

Thread derail: didn't you not want kids?

 

[dr_volki]

Yeah bloody women and kids grrrr

sadly yes.
i'm bilingual. she's not.
also her family only consists of my wife and her dad and she doesn't want to leave him alone.
i however don't have issue cutting ties with people i know

 

[dr_volki]

more stable than what though - the other poster was comparing it to savings accounts where the govt will bail you out

I'm saying two things - there are the risks already mentioned, in general, when investing in property

I've also mentioned that the assumption that property prices will carry on going up over the next 5 years isn't obvious (I'd say the same about most 5 year periods)

this has nothing to do with making any predictions, though apparently prices did fall in January

i don't know
was more thinking rationally that, if it's such a risky investment i doubt people would invest in such high volumes as they currently do.

 

[dowie]

i don't know
was more thinking rationally that, if it's such a risky investment i doubt people would invest in such high volumes as they currently do.

why? you don't think that people 'rationally' invest in investments riskier than savings such as the stock market, property etc..?

Yet they do....

 

[Freefaller]

sadly yes.
i'm bilingual. she's not.
also her family only consists of my wife and her dad and she doesn't want to leave him alone.
i however don't have issue cutting ties with people i know

I'm similar to you on your last point, but she's the same with regards to her family. I'm bilingual (well multi lingual really) and would like to give my family the same opportunities I had growing up (in multiple places).

We'll see.

 

[dr_volki]

why? you don't think that people 'rationally' invest in investments riskier than savings such as the stock market, property etc..?

Yet they do....

maybe i should've phrased it differently.

in terms of investment:
safest investment i guess would be put it in an cash isa / savings account, but have low returns.
then you could also invest into stock, shares, bonds, metals, property to potentially have way higher returns.

my rational was if it's so uncertain to currently invest into property, why aren't people pulling out and invest into something else?
my guess was that property investment is still probably fairly safe in the returns you're getting compared to a more volatile stock market.

saying that i think we are probably all just exaggerating here to bring our point across and when looking at how many actual people invest in property compared to for example shares. i'd argue a hell of a lot of people will invest more into shares than property.

 

[dowie]

my rational was if it's so uncertain to currently invest into property, why aren't people pulling out and invest into something else?
my guess was that property investment is still probably fairly safe in the returns you're getting compared to a more volatile stock market.

saying that i think we are probably all just exaggerating here to bring our point across and when looking at how many actual people invest in property compared to for example shares. i'd argue a hell of a lot of people will invest more into shares than property.

I think you're getting the wrong end of the stick... I never said property is so uncertain that no one would invest in it

I've pointed out that there is some risk involved in investing in property, I'm not exaggerating anything

 

[krooton]

Thread derail: didn't you not want kids?

Cracking memory!

You are right, turns out I didn't with my ex, rather than altogether.

 

[dr_volki]

I think you're getting the wrong end of the stick... I never said property is so uncertain that no one would invest in it

I've pointed out that there is some risk involved in investing in property, I'm not exaggerating anything

you did say there was plenty of uncertainty, plenty and some mean different things to me on scale of 1-10

that's why i asked, was only intrigued

 

[dowie]

you did say there was plenty of uncertainty, plenty and some mean different things to me on scale of 1-10

that's why i asked, was only intrigued

yes there is plenty of uncertainty - do you know where interest rates will be over the next 5 years, do you know how the brexit negotiations will pan out?

pointing out that there is plenty of uncertainty != everyone should logically not invest in property

 

[FoxEye]

The problem is the foreign investors doing it and pricing out even us guys who could buy.

Not long until you actually need to be a millionaire to own a property here in London at least

Sorry, but what's the difference between a Londoner buying up all the property in Cornwall, and a Russian buying up all the property in London?

A tad hypocritical to say "the problem is them foreigners".

Btw, we Cornish view anyone east of the Tamar as "foreigners"

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Just interested in how far the moral argument extends.

For me it is more that without these easy to obtain mortgages, these people would not be competing with first time buyers for housing and driving prices up. I can understand buy to let mortgages in certain circumstances but when someone has paid off their original property or owns several outright, I see no reason to have them.

It has made the market continuously harder for first time buyers and easier for people who already own property. With rent prices being so high, surely it should be the other way round?

I can understand allowing buy to let mortgages if someone is living in a rented property and wishes to let out a property they purchase though.