Are earnings too low / living costs getting too high??

[teaboy5]

I would happily be a live-in landlord with one property. I fundamentally object to owning multiple houses for the purpose of monetising them. I'm not going to abandon my firmly held principles for the sake of making money.

I'd like to make more money, sure, but if the only way to do so is to screw others in the process, I'll stay poor, thanks. I don't subscribe to the "dog eat dog world" mentality.

Funnily enough my brother and I were talking about this the other night, because both of us could invest in property if we chose to. He plans to. He said to me, "I don't like it any more than you do, but there are two types of people in this world: those who get screwed and those who do the screwing. I'm not going to get screwed."

I don't agree with him.

Jesus foxeye you really do hate people making a few pound. Maybe leave your bedroom and do something about it then if that's the way you feel. Become a councillor and move up the ranks until you can do something about it.

Or take all that money you have saved up and buy a house and rent it out.

 

[FoxEye]

Opportunist it might be but also a brilliant strategy for wealth accumulation. It's survival of the fittest. My parents are of Indian origin, the model is the same as what the British Empire taught them as they robbed India of their riches. Now their children (me) get to do the same strategy on home turf. By winning the ovarian lottery I was born 38 years after the British Raj was dissolved. If you want to hate me, feel free. I have simply learned the way of the British.

I'm looking forwarding to adding more to my portfolio this time via LTD company to escape Section 24 taxes - play the system to your advantage.

I'm not going to invest the energy into hating a stranger on the internet who clearly has a rather large chip on his shoulder. A bit sad if you ask me. Are your parents proud?

 

[coolsurfer]

I'm not going to invest the energy into hating a stranger on the internet who clearly has a rather large chip on his shoulder. A bit sad if you ask me. Are your parents proud?

I believe you are confused. It is you who has decided to take the moral high ground not me. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[FoxEye]

Jesus foxeye you really do hate people making a few pound. Maybe leave your bedroom and do something about it then if that's the way you feel. Become a councillor and move up the ranks until you can do something about it.

Or take all that money you have saved up and buy a house and rent it out.

What a ridiculous thing to say. I work hard for my money and have the satisfaction of doing an honest day's work for... well actually I'm getting a bit screwed by my employer at the mo so.... less than an honest day's pay.

I do not have any problem with people doing a job and getting paid. Or running a business which produces something valuable. Even if it's not valuable to me. Eg modern art

Those who derive their income from buying up finite resources essential for life, and then extorting money from the poor(er) who need those things? Yeah I have scorn for that. I try not to hate anyone tho. I just think some people need to have more compassion for those on low incomes.

Eg the people who serve your food, clean your streets, look after the elderly, collect your rubbish, deliver your mail... the list of low-paid but hard working professions is endless. The idea that it's fine to "make a few pound" by bleeding such people dry does not sit well with me. Sorry.

 

[coolsurfer]

What a ridiculous thing to say. I work hard for my money and have the satisfaction of doing an honest day's work for... well actually I'm getting a bit screwed by my employer at the mo so.... less than an honest day's pay.

I do not have any problem with people doing a job and getting paid. Or running a business which produces something valuable. Even if it's not valuable to me. Eg modern art

Those who derive their income from buying up finite resources essential for life, and then extorting money from the poor(er) who need those things? Yeah I have scorn for that. I try not to hate anyone tho. I just think some people need to have more compassion for those on low incomes.

Eg the people who serve your food, clean your streets, look after the elderly, collect your rubbish, deliver your mail... the list of low-paid but hard working professions is endless. The idea that it's fine to "make a few pound" by bleeding such people dry does not sit well with me. Sorry.

I take it you don't have a pension in which the holdings are blue chips that in one way or the other screw someone in the 3rd world over and avoids paying taxes by not repatriating overseas cash. You eat free trade chocolate and veg. You are vegetarian and do not allow animals to suffer. Your smart phone wasn't assembled by a 12 year old working 18 hours a day. Your shoes and clothing weren't assembled by child labour. Your vehicle doesn't pollute the environment. You my friend are the epitome of morality.

You see when you are fully aware of the political reality of the way the real world works - only then can you rationalise what you do and don't do.

 

[Madwelsh]

Cornwall is a bit of niche, compared to most places in the uk, it used to rely on fishing etc for it's income, now it's tourism. As such it's a 6month merry-go round, much like other coastal areas, Skeggy, Blackpool etc. In large towns and cities, renting is the norm, especially if you want to be near to your job / course.. in Cornwall it's different, the property is being bought up by people who visit at best 1 month of the year, then rent it out another 6 months of the year, more strangers, it's killing the villages. My Auntie lives on Tresco, Isles of Scilly, it used to be a whole village community, now it's dead 6 months of the year, and as the islanders die out, the community does too, eventually it'll be 20 people to oversee it for 5-6 months of the year.

Can I ask Fox, have you lived anywhere else? I was a Welshman for near 20 years, and have spent near 20 in Brum going there to do my degree, it does open your eyes, mostly to not good stuff, but to understand life, you have to go and see it and experience it. You have no kids? Again, I can't say I like the idea of being a landlord, but if this is required to ensure my kids get through uni, / own their own house, so be it. I rented for damn near 15 years.. I feel I played the game, and I paid my dues.. many on this thread no doubt feel the same.. hell I lived in complete crap holes while renting.

Have kids, the whole game changes, the world goes a full 180, I used to think I knew how people feel, til you have them sprogs you will never have a clue. It's fine clinging to a principle, but when you look into your childs eye, how can you deny them anything?

 

[teaboy5]

What a ridiculous thing to say. I work hard for my money and have the satisfaction of doing an honest day's work for... well actually I'm getting a bit screwed by my employer at the mo so.... less than an honest day's pay.

I do not have any problem with people doing a job and getting paid. Or running a business which produces something valuable. Even if it's not valuable to me. Eg modern art

Those who derive their income from buying up finite resources essential for life, and then extorting money from the poor(er) who need those things? Yeah I have scorn for that. I try not to hate anyone tho. I just think some people need to have more compassion for those on low incomes.

Eg the people who serve your food, clean your streets, look after the elderly, collect your rubbish, deliver your mail... the list of low-paid but hard working professions is endless. The idea that it's fine to "make a few pound" by bleeding such people dry does not sit well with me. Sorry.

Then do something about it and round up like minded people and get something done.

There is nothing stopping you buying a house and renting it out for a little less than normal and helping someone get a roof over their head. A lot of people on low incomes can do something about it, whether that's via moving to a new location, study or just working hard and move up the ranks.

 

[FoxEye]

Cornwall is a bit of niche, compared to most places in the uk, it used to rely on fishing etc for it's income, now it's tourism. As such it's a 6month merry-go round, much like other coastal areas, Skeggy, Blackpool etc. In large towns and cities, renting is the norm, especially if you want to be near to your job / course.. in Cornwall it's different, the property is being bought up by people who visit at best 1 month of the year, then rent it out another 6 months of the year, more strangers, it's killing the villages. My Auntie lives on Tresco, Isles of Scilly, it used to be a whole village community, now it's dead 6 months of the year, and as the islanders die out, the community does too, eventually it'll be 20 people to oversee it for 5-6 months of the year.

Can I ask Fox, have you lived anywhere else? I was a Welshman for near 20 years, and have spent near 20 in Brum going there to do my degree, it does open your eyes, mostly to not good stuff, but to understand life, you have to go and see it and experience it. You have no kids? Again, I can't say I like the idea of being a landlord, but if this is required to ensure my kids get through uni, / own their own house, so be it. I rented for damn near 15 years.. I feel I played the game, and I paid my dues.. many on this thread no doubt feel the same.. hell I lived in complete crap holes while renting.

Have kids, the whole game changes, the world goes a full 180, I used to think I knew how people feel, til you have them sprogs you will never have a clue. It's fine clinging to a principle, but when you look into your childs eye, how can you deny them anything?

I mostly see the human race as a virus which I have no desire to perpetuate. That includes you, me, and your kids. Probably not the answer you were looking for, but hey, you asked

I lived in Swansea for 4 years or so.

 

[dowie]

What a ridiculous thing to say. I work hard for my money and have the satisfaction of doing an honest day's work for... well actually I'm getting a bit screwed by my employer at the mo so.... less than an honest day's pay.

I do not have any problem with people doing a job and getting paid. Or running a business which produces something valuable. Even if it's not valuable to me. Eg modern art

Those who derive their income from buying up finite resources essential for life, and then extorting money from the poor(er) who need those things? Yeah I have scorn for that. I try not to hate anyone tho. I just think some people need to have more compassion for those on low incomes.

You ever bought any electronic goods made in china or filled a car up with petrol?

 

[dowie]

Opportunist it might be but also a brilliant strategy for wealth accumulation. It's survival of the fittest. My parents are of Indian origin, the model is the same as what the British Empire taught them as they robbed India of their riches. Now their children (me) get to do the same strategy on home turf. By winning the ovarian lottery I was born 38 years after the British Raj was dissolved. If you want to hate me, feel free. I have simply learned the way of the British.

 

[dowie]

They are clearly not the same thing, tho. We have not been discussing the commercial/industrial/business property market up to this point. I have no clue what the situation with commercial property is. Different sites, different uses, different clients... it's absolutely nothing like the housing market.

So you're willing to accept that there are possibly risks involved in investing there now but you're pretty sure (with the benefit of hindsight of course) that there weren't risks for BTL landlords...

 

[FoxEye]

I take it you don't have a pension in which the holdings are blue chips that in one way or the other screw someone in the 3rd world over and avoids paying taxes by not repatriating overseas cash. You eat free trade chocolate and veg. You are vegetarian and do not allow animals to suffer. Your smart phone wasn't assembled by a 12 year old working 18 hours a day. Your shoes and clothing weren't assembled by child labour. Your vehicle doesn't pollute the environment. You my friend are the epitome of morality.

You see when you are fully aware of the political reality of the way the real world works - only then can you rationalise what you do and don't do.

You ever bought any electronic goods made in china or filled a car up with petrol?

Both of these arguments amount to, "Exploitation happens in every corner of the world, and esp in the West nobody is completely innocent, therefore **** it, let's do whatever we want."

The idea that the world must be perfect before we're prepared to object to anything on moral grounds just means you'll never object to anything on moral grounds, because the world will never be perfect.

 

[dowie]

Both of these arguments amount to, "Exploitation happens in every corner of the world, and esp in the West nobody is completely innocent, therefore **** it, let's do whatever we want."

The idea that the world must be perfect before we're prepared to object to anything on moral grounds just means you'll never object to anything on moral grounds, because the world will never be perfect.

no just pointing out the nonsense idea that you'd be avoiding exploiting people, frankly in terms of your actions as a westerner buying a BTL or holiday let is causing significantly less harm than many other things you probably already do and in fact you'd still be providing a service to people. It isn;'t really a foregone conclusion that you'd be exploring people in the first place by simply owning a BTL - especially if you're quite conscious about not wanting to exploit people and put the effort into making your property decent, being timely with repairs and charging a reasonable amount for rent.

 

[teaboy5]

Look it's simple really. There will be poor people and there will be rich people. Get over it and move on with your life and enjoy it instead of sitting in what I take it is a dark room as you wouldn't want to give the power company anymore money than is needed to power your PC.

 

[FoxEye]

So you're willing to accept that there are possibly risks involved in investing there now but you're pretty sure (with the benefit of hindsight of course) that there weren't risks for BTL landlords...

I can say with utter conviction that those who continue to grow their portfolios today, and who have been doing so in the last few years, have done so with little risk, almost no risk.

That the "risk" today is so negligible that people continue to grab as much property as they can get their hands on, leveraging themselves as much as possible, expecting massive returns.

Since the "risk" now means that pretty much the entire economy would collapse if the housing market took a dive, the govt are doing and will do all in their power to prevent the housing market bubble bursting.

People who continue to buy more and more property today do so with no real risks. Years ago I would have agreed that there was risk. Not anymore. The housing market is now "too big to fail", and utterly out of control.

 

[dowie]

I can say with utter conviction that those who continue to grow their portfolios today, and who have been doing so in the last few years, have done so with little risk, almost no risk.

That the "risk" today is so negligible that people continue to grab as much property as they can get their hands on, leveraging themselves as much as possible, expecting massive returns.

Since the "risk" now means that pretty much the entire economy would collapse if the housing market took a dive, the govt are doing and will do all in their power to prevent the housing market bubble bursting.

People who continue to buy more and more property today do so with no real risks. Years ago I would have agreed that there was risk. Not anymore. The housing market is now "too big to fail", and utterly out of control.

no you've just got very little understanding of risk

 

[FoxEye]

no just pointing out the nonsense idea that you'd be avoiding exploiting people, frankly in terms of your actions as a westerner buying a BTL or holiday let is causing significantly less harm than many other things you probably already do and in fact you'd still be providing a service to people. It isn;'t really a foregone conclusion that you'd be exploring people in the first place by simply owning a BTL - especially if you're quite conscious about not wanting to exploit people and put the effort into making your property decent, being timely with repairs and charging a reasonable amount for rent.

The kind of person attracted to BTL in the first place isn't doing so out of some desire to benefit society. That they might not be terrible people is valid, but they aren't in BTL to help anyone besides themselves/ their own family/ kids.

The best thing somebody who wants to help can do is to only own as much property as they personally need. My becoming a "conscientious BTL landlord" doesn't not solve any problem, and merely exacerbates an existing problem - the lack of housing.

 

[FoxEye]

no you've just got very little understanding of risk

Would you say that putting your money into a bank is a risk? The banks could go under!

In reality tho, the govt steps in to rescue the banks. Same with housing. Too big to fail. The sheer demand for housing being as insatiable as it is, and the demand growing faster than supply can possible match, means that inequity between supply and demand is only going to get worse.

House prices *cannot* possible fall in such a scenario. It is divorced form reality to think there is a "risk" of house prices substantially falling. 5% annual growth for the last few years and the same again is expecting by all predictions, on average.

 

[Madwelsh]

I mostly see the human race as a virus which I have no desire to perpetuate. That includes you, me, and your kids. Probably not the answer you were looking for, but hey, you asked

I lived in Swansea for 4 years or so.

Lol, being from Bridgend, the case rests your honour

 

[FoxEye]

Look it's simple really. There will be poor people and there will be rich people. Get over it and move on with your life and enjoy it instead of sitting in what I take it is a dark room as you wouldn't want to give the power company anymore money than is needed to power your PC.

You clearly voted Tory last election