Are earnings too low / living costs getting too high??

[Rroff]

There was a release on a new development in Zone 4 last Friday, people had been camping outside the sales office since Tuesday. This was for 1/2 bedroom flats £350K+, as long as the demand is there, a major crash is unlikely anytime soon.

Problem is ultimately people need a roof over their head - if it was almost any other commodity market there would have been a crash by now due to people having options, in this case unless/until it gets to the point people anarchy or external factors like regulation or changes to the economy they almost have the market by the balls.

 

[ChrisD.]

assuming it takes an hour and a half each way....

I spend 3 hours a day on average driving to and from work, I still have time to go to the pub, play games, watch TV, go to the gym etc. Sure some nights I don't get any time at all if for example I have to go shopping, do housework, etc but it's perfectly manageable.

 

[balky12]

Genuinely interested how well that works for a couple that both work in London. My girlfriend's friends up north are always just telling us to "move out of London" every time the subject of house prices comes up in conversation. But the reality is, if you're both working in London it's either throw dead money at rent, or throw dead money at the train companies.

Me and my partner both work in the City and live outside of it. Hour door to door roughly, including 20 min walk to station, 30 minute train journey. Both 27 and own a nice 3 bed semi (last estimate was £370k). Yes train fare costs us around £6k a year between us. Could we find a job closer to home? Most definitely. Would it mean we earn anything near what we do now? Highly unlikely.

Hour door to door is probably a bad example, it's not too strenuous, and alternatives when it comes to driving at rush hour wouldn't be much quicker, even if I was working around Romford, Chelmsford, Colchester ways.

Yes some nights by the time we get home, cook dinner, eat and wash up it's basically bed time. Guess it all depends on what you want in life...

 

[Tone1979]

Totally agree. This is why I get arsey with all the BTL'ers. They're all part of the problem. You watch Location x3 and it's cringeworthy. Idiots buying a 600k house with their number one priority on how they're going to make money from it. It's mad. There was one on last night with a young couple with a toddler and all the guy was talking about was how to make money on it. Even Kirsty had to shut him up and tell him to get a bit of perspective and buy a damn house for his family to live in.

The sooner we kill BTL dead, the bubble will stop inflating. Once the bubble stops inflating the super-prime investors (the ones that leave them empty because they earn money anyway) will dump them too. They won't buy assets in a risky market. Add to that an interest rate rise and all the defaults that will come with that, and whoosh the market pops.

Because he "works from home" 3 days a week So in fairness, it's not a good answer to my (genuine) question at all. Having 1 half of a couple commuting for 2 days a week is not a good example for how the financials actually work out compared to living in London.

Well, As I said, for 6 years I worked 5 days a week in London. In the summer I would drive down after work and that would take between 3 and 4 hours in terms of driving and I would always get home super late. Now I get home at 5:30, I am on the water at 6 and back home having dinner at 8:30, I then have time with my partner. At the weekend I don't have to drive more than 10 mins so I save time there. Does that make more sense to you?

I'd rather get home and then go and do my hobby than get home, pack the car, leave London go to the beach, head home and then finish for the day.

We have more space, time and money than living in London.

 

[413x]

Wouldn't commute more than am hour and a half ish. And that would have to be very good money. My time is too precious to me vs money

 

[jonneymendoza]

Well, As I said, for 6 years I worked 5 days a week in London. In the summer I would drive down after work and that would take between 3 and 4 hours in terms of driving and I would always get home super late. Now I get home at 5:30, I am on the water at 6 and back home having dinner at 8:30, I then have time with my partner. At the weekend I don't have to drive more than 10 mins so I save time there. Does that make more sense to you?

I'd rather get home and then go and do my hobby than get home, pack the car, leave London go to the beach, head home and then finish for the day.

We have more space, time and money than living in London.

I use to commute an hour each way and now i live closer to work it takes me 25mins on the bike!

i get to go gym or do lots of things at home after work and enjoy life.

commuting so long is rubbish as you only get the weekends to truly do what you love doing.

 

[krooton]

I don't mind a longer commute provided I can do things, so 1 or 2 longer train journies is better than a car journey for half the time.

I can watch tv shows (or films if a really long journey), play games, hell, I've even been known to do some recording of DJ mixes whilst commuting. These are things I would do with my free time at home anyway, so I'm not really losing out, plus it allows me to watch shows that my gf might not be interested in.

 

[Scam]

We have more space, time and money than living in London.

Fair enough you worked 5 days a week previously but my point was that of course you find it "easier" living out of London when you are able to work from home 3 days a week. You have the best of both worlds; a job in London paying (presumably) more than it would outside of London, yet you don't have the expense or time wasted by commuting full time. I'm not having a go, I wanted a direct comparison of what most people do and that's working 5 days a week in London and how living in London compared to living 1hr+ out of it.

 

[ChrisD.]

I wouldn't mind trying the London thing, but for contractors in my field, the day rates aren't that great. Around £50 per day more than what I can earn a few miles from my house, which is no where near enough to cover expenses.

 

[Tone1979]

Fair enough you worked 5 days a week previously but my point was that of course you find it "easier" living out of London when you are able to work from home 3 days a week. You have the best of both worlds; a job in London paying (presumably) more than it would outside of London, yet you don't have the expense or time wasted by commuting full time. I'm not having a go, I wanted a direct comparison of what most people do and that's working 5 days a week in London and how living in London compared to living 1hr+ out of it.

I only changed to 3 days a week in Jan this year. My memory is very fresh regarding 5 days a week working. I only mentioned the 3 days as it's what's going on now. If I had to change back to 5 days a week, I would remain where I am. For me working 5 days a week in London wasn't a problem at all. My life work balance was still very favorable when compared to living and working in London.

 

[tres]

Cornwall is a bit of niche, compared to most places in the uk, it used to rely on fishing etc for it's income, now it's tourism. As such it's a 6month merry-go round, much like other coastal areas, Skeggy, Blackpool etc. In large towns and cities, renting is the norm, especially if you want to be near to your job / course.. in Cornwall it's different, the property is being bought up by people who visit at best 1 month of the year, then rent it out another 6 months of the year, more strangers, it's killing the villages. My Auntie lives on Tresco, Isles of Scilly, it used to be a whole village community, now it's dead 6 months of the year, and as the islanders die out, the community does too, eventually it'll be 20 people to oversee it for 5-6 months of the year.

Can I ask Fox, have you lived anywhere else? I was a Welshman for near 20 years, and have spent near 20 in Brum going there to do my degree, it does open your eyes, mostly to not good stuff, but to understand life, you have to go and see it and experience it. You have no kids? Again, I can't say I like the idea of being a landlord, but if this is required to ensure my kids get through uni, / own their own house, so be it. I rented for damn near 15 years.. I feel I played the game, and I paid my dues.. many on this thread no doubt feel the same.. hell I lived in complete crap holes while renting.

Have kids, the whole game changes, the world goes a full 180, I used to think I knew how people feel, til you have them sprogs you will never have a clue. It's fine clinging to a principle, but when you look into your childs eye, how can you deny them anything?

Dragging up an old thread - who is your auntie?

 

[jonneymendoza]

I wouldn't mind trying the London thing, but for contractors in my field, the day rates aren't that great. Around £50 per day more than what I can earn a few miles from my house, which is no where near enough to cover expenses.

Contractors at my line of work most exist in london. Some are beginning to pop up in cambridge but majority of jobs are in london.

its funny because my line of work could be done remotely most of the time and wished there were more remote work so i can live outside of london getting good contract rates

 

[Madwelsh]

Dragging up an old thread - who is your auntie?

She's a very astute lady who has lived on Tresco for probably 50 years, her Husband Pete, (who I'm thankful to have as my uncle) has won numerous awards for his garden. Not hard to find her, there's a whacking great anchor set in the sea wall out front. Many happy Summer holidays spent on Tresco quay, hence my eternal thanks to my Auntie and Uncle.

As regards to the people kidding themselves 3hrs a day 'commuting' is acceptable.. Myself and my missus live 5 mins from our workplace.. trust me, when you have kids, you want every minute, why have kids if you don't? I know, we'll earn more so other people can nurture those kids.. why bother having them? People on this thread with no kids but a partner, it's great now, but sooner or later that clock is ticking.. when you have kids everything is out of the window.. the partner you have now, will not be the one you knew, and the person you are now, is not what you will be.. just a heads up!

 

[tres]

She's a very astute lady who has lived on Tresco for probably 50 years, her Husband Pete, (who I'm thankful to have as my uncle) has won numerous awards for his garden. Not hard to find her, there's a whacking great anchor set in the sea wall out front. Many happy Summer holidays spent on Tresco quay, hence my eternal thanks to my Auntie and Uncle.

As regards to the people kidding themselves 3hrs a day 'commuting' is acceptable.. Myself and my missus live 5 mins from our workplace.. trust me, when you have kids, you want every minute, why have kids if you don't? I know, we'll earn more so other people can nurture those kids.. why bother having them? People on this thread with no kids but a partner, it's great now, but sooner or later that clock is ticking.. when you have kids everything is out of the window.. the partner you have now, will not be the one you knew, and the person you are now, is not what you will be.. just a heads up!

P & R, lovely couple. Knew them for years. Small world - my uncle & auntie live next door to them.

 

[Rroff]

A little bit applicable to this thread while mostly focused on the US is reflected here as well: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39660656 increasingly so many not really full time, not really very secure jobs that people in that age group will have open to them is probably having huge implications and possibly building up a hidden mental health crisis that we won't see the extent of until a decade or twos time :s

 

[Ayahuasca]

A little bit applicable to this thread while mostly focused on the US is reflected here as well: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39660656 increasingly so many not really full time, not really very secure jobs that people in that age group will have open to them is probably having huge implications and possibly building up a hidden mental health crisis that we won't see the extent of until a decade or twos time :s

The thing with this though is I think it works both ways if more millennials moved out and gained some independence and knew the struggle of supporting yourself would it not push them to earn more money?

Telling people you still live with parents in your late 20's and early 30's will already have an effect on your mental wellbeing, whilst people may not be bothered or might not even know it can have a huge effect on your confidence and self-worth.

I think it's far too easy to just stay at home and say "I can't afford to move out", but I think many people (outside of London and certain southern areas) who say that actually could if they made a little sacrifice to their spending habits, gained some independence and then pushed on to make living independently more comfortable. I don't think that drive is there when you can have it easy and live at home and coast through life till you have savings for a deposit, especially when many aren't even saving properly and clubbing every weekend or buying new shiny things to keep up with whoever etc etc.

 

[Rroff]

The thing with this though is I think it works both ways if more millennials moved out and gained some independence and knew the struggle of supporting yourself would it not push them to earn more money?

A lot of the point of the article is that the conditions are less favourable these days for taking that initial step in the first place.

It was something I was thinking about - around here for instance when I was at the start of that age bracket around 17 years ago there were a lot more jobs (not to say that there is a complete death of these jobs but a lot less) that just about anyone could fallback on - factory, warehouse, retail (including non-customer facing), etc. type jobs that were 35-40 hours a week and relatively secure and possible to move out on with a degree of confidence. These days around here many of those jobs are <20 hour contracts or even zero hour and an increasing number are only temporary/agency staffed, etc. or require specific experience/qualifications or a broader range of abilities in an effort to make as many roles as possible "multi-skilled" and so on.

For instance one warehouse I worked at the time was almost all full time jobs except a few weekender positions filled by students, etc. these days only the management and supervisor positions are full time.

 

[arknor]

why does rent in the UK get higher each year, but in other countries it seems to get cheaper as the building ages and they can't make full rent unless someone moves out and they renovate

 

[StriderX]

why does rent in the UK get higher each year, but in other countries it seems to get cheaper as the building ages and they can't make full rent unless someone moves out and they renovate

British ultra low standards.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

British ultra low standards.

I would say it's more to do with the value of the property. Houses in this country are worth silly amounts of money even in relatively poor condition and they are only going in one direction.

Likewise as house prices are moving rapidly many people can not afford to get on at the low end. Even more pressure is put on because people are now in education longer and waiting longer to commit to long term relationships mean that its even harder. This mean less time to pay off said mortgage and then prepping for retirement, its a perfect storm.