Are earnings too low / living costs getting too high??

[regulus]

The trouble is, with rents going up so often and so much, a lot of people *have* done as you've suggested, already.

What do you say to the people who don't have Sky, or a car, and buy their clothes from ASDA?

Move? Get a degree and become a banker?

I don't have Sky, or my own car, nor would buy clothes at Asda. Happy to buy 2nd hand.

I live perfectly fine.

You only think you need these things, you don't really. There's other perfectly acceptable alternatives. A lot of them also completely free.

But I agree with you on house prices. It's out of control.

 

[Buffman]

This thread seems to have become a bit too focused on what you can do on minimum wage or whatever - but I think the OP was talking more about the affordability of a lifestyle commensurate with a given wage where housing costs are fast becoming a big, though not the only, factor in redefining what that means. Sure if you are earning below average wage you might have to limit your expectations somewhat but its not unreasonable to expect that someone earning an average wage could afford an average house, an average car, etc. etc. without having to make too big a sacrifice in any one area - or alternatively a bigger sacrifice in some areas if they wanted a nicer house, etc. but increasingly if you were say earning an average wage you are looking at property affordability that is far lower down the ladder or making considerable sacrifices in some areas of your lifestyle to afford a fairly average house.

Yea you've articulated it better than me!

Im basically the situation of the latter part of your post, I'd probably be able to afford a much nicer house if I was born 15 years ago (with similar career).
I don't need to justify my outgoings to GD but they are low. The thought of paying £100 a month on sky is completely foreign to me!

Its even worse on the minimum/low wage spectrum, but I suspect the majority of ocuk aren't in this market, thus not familiar. People 20+ years ago could afford say a 3 bed house on minimum wage incomes... Now not so much.

 

[inflames]

The biggest issue is that people live beyond there means and have to much debt thats why most people feel that don’t earn enough to live. People always want now and not willing to save. People need to learn live on less then what they make and save. Remember the borrower is the slave to the lender. Really wish we had got wise to this year’s ago and we wouldn't have had loans etc we are both in our early 30’s.

We are currently in the situation like many other currently saving for a deposit on a house, but we won’t be able to buy the kind of house we really want, will most likely have to buy our current 2 bed council home and convert it into a 3 bed. I earn above the average for my area of the county and my wife earns just above minimum wage (when she goes back to work).

Another theory that one of my friends who retires this year told me years ago. The minimum wage is what killed wages and reduced earning for skilled workers. I laughed this off when he first told me, as i believe that people should have the right to a certain level wages. Now i look at it and i see the gap between minimum wage and skilled workers is getting smaller. So i can almost see his point.

 

[Nitefly]

I think people have ridiculously consumeristic lifestyles and generally spend rather than save. I know I do

 

[jay0906]

I'm telling you social media is to blame. Now that it's plastered in our faces what all the "Cool people" have/use 24/7. People want the same even if that means spending way more than they can afford to do so.

 

[wez130]

I don't have Sky, or my own car, nor would buy clothes at Asda. Happy to buy 2nd hand.

I live perfectly fine.

You only think you need these things, you don't really. There's other perfectly acceptable alternatives. A lot of them also completely free.

But I agree with you on house prices. It's out of control.

I have sky full package, a premium car on finance, i always buy designer clothes and am very comfortable with my finances. I rent with my wife, i earn a slightly above average wage, my wife is not as high an earner as me, we do not struggle, we manage to save about £1k per month without sacrificing anything, i pay £500 / month in maintenance for my children, plus buy treat them and buy things for them (naturally). We still have spare money every month to treat ourselves to a night away or something. Living in the north does help, but i have noticed a bigger gap now between earnings and the price of property but it isn't as bad up north as it is down south, i guess if you want to live in a premium area (city centre / affluent area) it will cost you, however, i do live in one of the best postcodes in the country (CA20), but do not pay a premium for it.

Things could be much worse than they are here, for example, i'm moving to New Zealand at the end of this year, now, you can get property for £20k over there, but it is literally miles and miles from anywhere, like a tiny village where there is no work or prospects, if you want work, you need to move towards Wellingotn / Auckland, where you will find work, when i go, i'll be expecting a salary of around $60/$65k pa. Not brilliant, but not bad right? Well, it is peanuts when you look at the cost of housing in Auckland, the cheapest house currently on the market within commuting distance to Auckland is $298k (£170k), this is for a 2 bed shed....

http://www.realestate.co.nz/2968238

This is about 60 miles to Auckland CBD, any closer and you're looking at $600 / 700k for a similar property. (£340-£400k). Even rentals start around $450 per WEEK for a poorly maintained property with single glazed windows etc. The point is, the gap between pay and property is much, much worse there.

The ironic thing is though, i've got more of a chance of buying a property over in NZ than i do here! They have a thing called a kiwisaver over there, where you pay so much of your wage into it a month (between 3-8%), and you can use this to buy your first property, as well as your pension pot, i think this is a fantastic idea, and should be brought in over here too.

 

[Freefaller]

I think people have ridiculously consumeristic lifestyles and generally spend rather than save. I know I do

And have materialistic desires and try to share their lives on social media or live vicariously rather than living for themselves.

You can make sacrifices if you're willing to. You can work harder and you can move to where the opportunities are. I've done all of the above. It's not easy and you lose touch with friends but you make new ones and working hard is tough but sometimes you have to sacrifice a little bit of your life to secure a better one.

People get used to luxury living whilst living at their parents or other situations only to realise that life is more expensive. You don't need the latest fashion, gadget, phone, fastest internet etc.... You can make do until you're in a position do to have all that stuff. Or learn to accept that you may never get that level of luxury but you don't need all that to be happy. I was as happy when i had very little as i am now when I have a bit more.

 

[badgeruk]

Im just one example of someone living in the SE. I earn an alright wage and still living my parents so I can save. So far I almost have enough savings to buy my family home out right had I been born 15 years earlier(I've been working 4 years after getting my masters). At the moment the only options I would be able to afford are 1 bed flats in terrible areas with the same total floor space as 2 of the rooms in my parents home. My boss who happens to have done the same course as me 15~ years ago was earning the same wage as me give or take.

Not everyone is just spending there money on crap, some of us have saved plenty only to see it earn 15p in interest while house prices in their area still rise by silly amounts each year. These flats I have looked at were sold for 80k 10-15 years ago. They are now going for 170-190k. How ever you look at that it is mental. And that's if your lucky enough that someone does not go well over the asking prices due to a lack of choice. (Happen to me and a work colleague).

In before I get told to move away from my friends/family motor meet and the job I love so I can buy somewhere up north.

 

[V F]

And have materialistic desires and try to share their lives on social media or live vicariously rather than living for themselves.

It isn't going to change though. Information overload. It really isn't different on this board or many others.

 

[FoxEye]

I don't have Sky, or my own car, nor would buy clothes at Asda. Happy to buy 2nd hand.

I live perfectly fine.

You only think you need these things, you don't really. There's other perfectly acceptable alternatives. A lot of them also completely free.

But I agree with you on house prices. It's out of control.

That wasn't the point.

The point was: what do you say to people who *don't* have those things anyhow, thus can't give them up to "stop wasting money" on them?

The assumption by many here is that you can live comfortably on nat min wage if you don't have the full Sky TV package, etc.

Which, given rents down here can easily be 75% of take-hom on nat min wage, is extremely difficult.

Many people in this part of the country at least are working full time jobs just to afford to eat, pay rent, and keep warm.

 

[Bassmansam]

That wasn't the point.

The point was: what do you say to people who *don't* have those things anyhow, thus can't give them up to "stop wasting money" on them?

The assumption by many here is that you can live comfortably on nat min wage if you don't have the full Sky TV package, etc.

Which, given rents down here can easily be 75% of take-hom on nat min wage, is extremely difficult.

Many people in this part of the country at least are working full time jobs just to afford to eat, pay rent, and keep warm.

I thought cornwall was just nice villages like in Doc Martin?

 

[Irish_Tom]

Cornwall is one of the most expensive places to live in the UK with some of the lowest wages in Europe.

This is the result of decades of neglect and lack of investment from consecutives governments, coupled with 'second homers' pushing up the price of housing.

The one thing that was actually helping Cornwall was EU funding which the Cornish as a whole have just voted against.

I appreciate Truro voted Remain but as a collective, the county has literally bitten the hand that feeds it.

Unless there are major changes, things aren't going to get better for Cornwall any time soon.

 

[FoxEye]

Would be nice if people could for once be honest as to WHY they're struggling. From what I've directly experienced firsthand, 90%+ of the time it's due to their stupidity with money and life, not for lack of earnings. But as always, so much easier to blame outwardly than look inwardly.

It's very easy to blame the poor for their poverty.

It means that not only can you stop looking for solutions to poverty, you can justify not sharing what you have with those less fortunate.

"I'm not paying more tax to help the poor. If they just (worked harder/ gave up Sky/ stopped living beyond their means/ got a degree) they would not be poor! It's not *my* fault!"

Meanwhile, look at the situation with food banks. The number of people - in this country - now dependent on food banks to feed their families is rising drastically every month.

 

[Rroff]

Im just one example of someone living in the SE. I earn an alright wage and still living my parents so I can save. So far I almost have enough savings to buy my family home out right had I been born 15 years earlier(I've been working 4 years after getting my masters). At the moment the only options I would be able to afford are 1 bed flats in terrible areas with the same total floor space as 2 of the rooms in my parents home. My boss who happens to have done the same course as me 15~ years ago was earning the same wage as me give or take.

Similar situation here - moved back to my parents one of the reasons being to save towards a house - if it had been 15 years earlier I'd have been laughing.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Social media has without a doubt made people believe they need more material items to have a happy life when if anything it will just make them more miserable if they can't truly afford said items, is it worth putting yourself under more financial stress just to own the next best thing?

On the other end of the scale there are also a large percentage of people working extremely stressful jobs or long hours just to be able to keep up with their friends and family to afford that big house or the mercedes on the drive, working silly amounts of overtime or putting their health at risk due to constant stress for what?

There's very little balance in this country, both ends are just slaving away to afford items just outside of their earnings, when in reality what will make most people truly happy is working less hours and living within their means. That however is a pipe dream atm for the majority.

 

[FoxEye]

The biggest issue is that people live beyond there means and have to much debt thats why most people feel that don’t earn enough to live. People always want now and not willing to save. People need to learn live on less then what they make and save. Remember the borrower is the slave to the lender. Really wish we had got wise to this year’s ago and we wouldn't have had loans etc we are both in our early 30’s.

Can I tell all of you something I've noticed from personal experience. It's anecdotal, but you might be able to agree with me anyhow.

The people most likely to have credit card debts, loans, and vast outgoings are... those earning substantially above nat min wage.

I know people who earn twice as much as me, but who are continually borrowing money, have credit cards, and appear to live hand-to-mouth. Always saying how money is tight. Yet have two cars, holidays abroad, etc. They really struggle to balance the books, and have *enormous* outgoings. But they earn very good money.

I also know people earning nat min wage who *don't* have Sky, don't take holidays, buy cheap clothes, can't afford anything, and are really, really tight (good) with their money.

When people say "you could be so much better off if you didn't waste your money" it is often true - but think about the people you know who actually do live like this. I'll bet you they aren't the lowest paid in society. I'll bet you they are either students, or they are middle-class people earning average UK wage or more.

I put it to all of you that many people earning nat min wage are very good at controlling their expenditure. They have no choice.

 

[bayo000]

In before I get told to move away from my friends/family motor meet and the job I love so I can buy somewhere up north.

Why not? After I finished school I could not find a job for almost 2 years, then I joined army for a while and when I was 20 I moved abroad with £70 and return ticket in my pocket. At 27 when I decide to sort myself out and get a proper career I moved to Birmingham as that's where I had the opportunity. Year and a bit later I moved back to Manchester. I now own property here as well as abroad and we're planning to buy a forever house next year.
Unless you get very lucky you need to make things happen. I'm not saying it's easy but refusing it outright is just silly.

 

[badgeruk]

I haven't ruled it out. I have friends in Liverpool so I have looked to see if there are any jobs close to what I'm doing now and there are none. In fact I counted 3 jobs in my area repeated 100 times each on different agencies.

its also not really an answer unless you expect 90% of people my age or younger to move up north unless your on 35k plus joint income. All that would do is move the problem further up north and that's if there is anothe skilled jobs there for ever one.

And from a personal level I like the south east, I want to be close to my parents and as I said in my first post I have a job I love. It's my dream job that's I've wanted since I was 7ish. That's hard to walk away from.

On top of that I've met some great people from this forum over the last 2 years.

 

[Rroff]

In fact I counted 3 jobs in my area repeated 100 times each on different agencies.

I've found it amusing when we have a job opening and the agencies (possibly with the intention of interesting people from different fields/perspectives) put up 5-6 different versions of it so it looks like they have multiple openings - but due to specific requirements I can tell they all lead back to the same one job.

Why not? After I finished school I could not find a job for almost 2 years, then I joined army for a while and when I was 20 I moved abroad with £70 and return ticket in my pocket. At 27 when I decide to sort myself out and get a proper career I moved to Birmingham as that's where I had the opportunity. Year and a bit later I moved back to Manchester. I now own property here as well as abroad and we're planning to buy a forever house next year.
Unless you get very lucky you need to make things happen. I'm not saying it's easy but refusing it outright is just silly.

Personally I've done this twice to find work and if I move on from my current job probably have to do it a third time but it simply isn't a realistic option for every one - or extremely undesirable when it is a realistic option.

 

[Bear]

It's very easy to blame the poor for their poverty.

It means that not only can you stop looking for solutions to poverty, you can justify not sharing what you have with those less fortunate.

"I'm not paying more tax to help the poor. If they just (worked harder/ gave up Sky/ stopped living beyond their means/ got a degree) they would not be poor! It's not *my* fault!"

Meanwhile, look at the situation with food banks. The number of people - in this country - now dependent on food banks to feed their families is rising drastically every month.

Well if people keep coming out with phrases like "it's their moral duty to pay their taxes" and bring morality into it then why should morality fall on one section of society? Shouldn't it be the moral duty for the poor to try and better their lot so they don't continually live off the taxes of others and when they don't get the level of service they believe they should get, they say tax the wealthy more and never how they could contribute more.