Are earnings too low / living costs getting too high??

[badgeruk]

I've found it amusing when we have a job opening and the agencies (possibly with the intention of interesting people from different fields/perspectives) put up 5-6 different versions of it so it looks like they have multiple openings - but due to specific requirements I can tell they all lead back to the same one job.

These were 3 copy and paste adds but all for analog engineering and all paying the same wage. So thinking about it, it was mostly for the same job.

 

[nitram100]

Yes they are, both myself and girlfriend are nurses with a decent wage yet a house or kids is out of the question.

 

[FoxEye]

Well if people keep coming out with phrases like "it's their moral duty to pay their taxes" and bring morality into it then why should morality fall on one section of society? Shouldn't it be the moral duty for the poor to try and better their lot so they don't continually live off the taxes of others and when they don't get the level of service they believe they should get, they say tax the wealthy more and never how they could contribute more.

Do you think that it is even possible to *not* have poverty?

Assuming everybody had a degree, for example - yes, 100% of the population had a degree - do you think 100% of the population would be able to find a job, and that poverty would cease to exist?

In other words, do you think poverty is purely caused by the poor not trying hard enough? And that if all the poor met some minimum criteria for "trying hard enough", that there would be *no* poverty left?

 

[Vita]

I know of those who earn a brilliant wage outside of london. Live a comfortable life, yet are totally useless at their jobs. Although that nothing new judging by the MP's we have.

 

[Rroff]

Do you think that it is even possible to *not* have poverty?

Assuming everybody had a degree, for example - yes, 100% of the population had a degree - do you think 100% of the population would be able to find a job, and that poverty would cease to exist?

In other words, do you think poverty is purely caused by the poor not trying hard enough? And that if all the poor met some minimum criteria for "trying hard enough", that there would be *no* poverty left?

Poverty is somewhat a construction of the world we have shaped. In theory it would be possible to have a far fairer world than the one we have with far fewer people living in poverty unless they chose not to make an effort whatsoever.

Personally I've had to make far more effort than most, though I'm sure there are people who have had it worse, so as not to live in poverty. (For a long time in my life it was like every door slammed shut just as I got there despite doing everything "right", etc.).

 

[Bear]

Do you think that it is even possible to *not* have poverty?

Assuming everybody had a degree, for example - yes, 100% of the population had a degree - do you think 100% of the population would be able to find a job, and that poverty would cease to exist?

In other words, do you think poverty is purely caused by the poor not trying hard enough? And that if all the poor met some minimum criteria for "trying hard enough", that there would be *no* poverty left?

In a first world country, yes I believe it is possible not to have absolute poverty. That is not the same as everyone can be wealthy. There will always be poor people because many are happy with where they are in life besides not having enough money and that is fine. They don't look to up skilling or keeping skills current, or take on greater responsibility, or work 400 miles from home away from the family etc. They want to work locally and to the clock and go home and that's their choice, but it isn't my moral duty to pay my taxes to subsidise their life any more than than it being their moral duty to ensure they stop living off the backs of other people's labour.

 

[StriderX]

My greatest gripe with poor people, in particular people on the streets.

Just commit a crime for gods sake... there's literally food and warmth waiting for them in prison, but they choose to freeze to death instead for "morals". I'm not saying that homelessness should be illegal (even if it's implied), but that logical failure to survive is too much for me.

 

[D.P.]

I will put my neck on the line to respond here -

I am a BTL Landlord. I have 2 'premium' properties into which I have invested almost every penny I have saved over the last 15 years.

They are my pension to be. They return 3.6% PA and will provide an income (split between myself and my wife), of about £40k per annum (before costs). I have benefitted from the rises in prices over the last 15 years, but do I consider myself a drain on society? no for the following reasons;

1. I look after my tenants - like any 'business' customers should come first.
2. I don't force tenants to rent either of my properties. There are significantly cheaper options available in the same area, but some tenants want to pay for the premium property - Often expats working in the UK for several years.
3. I invest in and maintain my properties to a high standard, it is foolish not to. I invested over 30k this year in improvements for the long term.
4. I am unencumbered - I have put everything I have into paying off my mortgages to realise the opportunity of a balanced and secured income in retirement.
5. I have never threatened or evicted anyone.

I agree that at the lower end of the market some (but not all) landlords could be considered to be taking advantage (and do), but many/most are not, (It works both ways with some tenants also taking the p***!!). For many like me it is a legitimate method of investing money, and I do not believe I take advantage of people, though I expect in every industry there will always be some who do. To be a landlord is not the easy option many assume, it is hard work to get there, and not without risks.

Ironically if I wanted to exit the industry (and I don't) the actions of the government in the last 3 years have made it far harder to do so, and not easier to sell my properties. I suggest the focus of venom should be on a government who seems intent on creating rules which lock landlords into current investments, increase costs (which go to tenants) and restricts building / available property, therefore driving prices ever upwards.

I am merely trying to balance my future income against a desire to have some sort of living standard for myself and my family in the future, something I have saved hard to achieve for 20+ years.

Martin

That is great and all, and if you are really such a nice landlord then you will have no issues in abiding by the rules I set out that are common in most developed countries to protect renters and ensure people's living costs are aligned and controlled.

My venom is not at BTL landloards but the British obsession with house ownership. Brits need to change their attitude to accept rental, and part of that is more control over the rental market.

 

[Bear]

My greatest gripe with poor people, in particular people on the streets.

Just commit a crime for gods sake... there's literally food and warmth waiting for them in prison, but they choose to freeze to death instead for "morals". I'm not saying that homelessness should be illegal (even if it's implied), but that logical failure to survive is too much for me.

That doesn't work for all homeless people because some homeless people don't want to be found. There are for instance girls who are homeless because they were abused at home and are on the run and are afraid to be found because they don't want to have to go back, same with violently abused women.

 

[StriderX]

That doesn't work for all homeless people because some homeless people don't want to be found. There are for instance girls who are homeless because they were abused at home and are on the run and are afraid to be found because they don't want to have to go back.

Most homeless i witness are 30+ year old men and any woman i've seen is either an unfortunate addict or European gypsy. But I suppose that is an issue.

 

[Bear]

Most homeless i witness are 30+ year old men and any woman i've seen is either an unfortunate addict or European gypsy. But I suppose that is an issue.

That woman that is an unfortunate addict could be the product of being violently abused at home from an aggressive husband and taking drugs to take away the pain. People turn to drugs for all different reasons.

 

[hulari]

I think it's more the house prices that are an issue than anything and the initial saving period for those that wish to buy, but I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to buying as I still rent. If you're clever with your money I would say a household income of £25k-£30k (single and living alone) is more than enough to live comfortably.

I'm fortunate enough to live with my younger brother, we both earn about the same amount and we rent a private home (a new build 2 up 2 down) between us for £650 per month just outside of Peterborough and we both have new cars (1/2 years old) on finance.

Our last rental property was first on the market for £575 per month, which was a 2 bed bungalow, we applied and at the same time the landlord wanted to put the fee up to 600 per month, after 6 months it went up to 625 with him wanting to put it up to 650 after another 6 months. It was damp, and poorly ventilated and the windows were shot so we moved. The landlord re-listed the property at £675-£700. that's an increase in rent by £100-£125 in just 18months.

unfortunately for us our parents don't live in the UK anymore, otherwise I think we'd have both moved back home to save a hell of a lot quicker.

 

[bayo000]

I haven't ruled it out. I have friends in Liverpool so I have looked to see if there are any jobs close to what I'm doing now and there are none. In fact I counted 3 jobs in my area repeated 100 times each on different agencies.

its also not really an answer unless you expect 90% of people my age or younger to move up north unless your on 35k plus joint income. All that would do is move the problem further up north and that's if there is anothe skilled jobs there for ever one.

And from a personal level I like the south east, I want to be close to my parents and as I said in my first post I have a job I love. It's my dream job that's I've wanted since I was 7ish. That's hard to walk away from.

On top of that I've met some great people from this forum over the last 2 years.

I'm not saying you need to move permanently, I moved around while I made sure I can get a good job where I want to be and be able to live in an area where I'm happy.

In my opinion more people moving up north would actually sort out housing problem down south as the demand for housing drops and improve the north with more people spending money here. Jobs would get created pretty fast as well, office space up here is cheaper than in London so it would be a win win for companies.

 

[UTmaniac]

Back in the mid 1990s, it was easy to get unskilled temping jobs at £3+ per hour in Southampton, while I recall houses on Brickfield Road (for example) being on the market for ~£55k. Role on to 2017, minimum wage is about to increase to £7.50 per hour and two houses on that same road are currently listed at £225k+!

Not sure if I've just found the exact rental house I lived in back in 1998, back then it was 5-bedroom and the average rent was ~£175 all inclusive IIRC (lets say £900pcm). It's now listed as 4-bedroom (my old ground floor room back as a reception room) for £1560pcm and does not list any service bills as being inclusive (so that could easily be another £200pcm+ excluding Council Tax).

Basic wages might have more than doubled, but house prices have at least quadrupled, before we even talk about how life has changed over the last ~22 years (more cars; broadband; mobile phones; gaming PCs/ consoles; other technology etc.).

 

[Psycho Sonny]

My greatest gripe with poor people, in particular people on the streets.

Just commit a crime for gods sake... there's literally food and warmth waiting for them in prison, but they choose to freeze to death instead for "morals". I'm not saying that homelessness should be illegal (even if it's implied), but that logical failure to survive is too much for me.

lolwut?

You want people to go and commit a crime serious enough to earn prison time in order to survive?

you do realise these days they are trying to decrease the numbers in prisons so you need to do something really bad to warrant going there in the first place.

would you let them rape you so they could spend 2 years inside then come out and rape you again so they could get an additional 4 years inside?

 

[Rroff]

would you let them rape you so they could spend 2 years inside then come out and rape you again so they could get an additional 4 years inside?

That is taking doing your bit for society a bit to the extreme!

 

[Sui]

Girlfriend and I can just about afford the deposit on a house now, but unsure whether to bite the bullet or wait a little longer in case Brexit makes a dent in house prices. bleugh.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Rental market needs to be controlled:

1. Cap rents at less than 3% of property value
2. Increases in rent can follow no more than inflation for current tenants.
3. Rented property must not be mortgaged, e.g landlord needs to own outright.
4. Rental contracts need to be indefinite, e.g. a landlord cannot evict those paying rent on time unless exceptional circumstances including substantial renovation or selling property.
5. Minimum standards in room sizes, turning quality, safety, maximum age since previous renovation, etc

That is great and all, and if you are really such a nice landlord then you will have no issues in abiding by the rules I set out that are common in most developed countries to protect renters and ensure people's living costs are aligned and controlled.

My venom is not at BTL landlords but the British obsession with house ownership. Brits need to change their attitude to accept rental, and part of that is more control over the rental market.

1 — this seems like an arbitrary (and low) figure. After ground rent and service charges (for flats), plus general maintenance and upkeep, along with management fees (if you let through an agency), there's not going to be much left at the end of each month, never mind servicing a mortgage, which brings me on to:

3 — how do you propose to enforce this and what would you do to all of those rental properties that are currently mortgaged? Force the owners to put them on the market? This would see an influx of properties flood the market and reduce property prices. While that may be good for first time buyers and renters looking to buy, it's going to leave a lot of people in negative equity.

4 — Yes, but there needs to be some protection for Landlords who end up with nightmare tenants.

2 and 5 I have no issue with and, as you say, are fairly common in developed countries. But 1 and 3 are barking (and I don't believe are common practice in developed countries) and 4 would need strict legislation to work.

You say you're not against BTL landlords but points 1 and 3 are clearly intended to deter landlords. Your plans could actually have the unintended consequence of reducing the amount of available housing to rent and leave a lot of existing homeowners worse off.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

My venom is not at BTL landloards but the British obsession with house ownership. Brits need to change their attitude to accept rental, and part of that is more control over the rental market.

Please explain this.

What do you suggest one do instead? Rent? Then what do you suggest they do when they retire? How do you expect them to pay £600+ a month on state pension? As well as all other costs.

What your suggesting is idiotic

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I don't have Sky, or my own car, nor would buy clothes at Asda. Happy to buy 2nd hand.

I live perfectly fine.

You only think you need these things, you don't really. There's other perfectly acceptable alternatives. A lot of them also completely free.

But I agree with you on house prices. It's out of control.

Interested in why you buy second hand clothes. Designer gear IMO isn't that expensive if you buy in the sales. It also lasts longer usually. Or why not just buy from cheaper stores? I mean M & S, Next, H & M, etc aren't expensive at all IMO for clothes.