Are EV’s really the way to go?

We are going the wrong way with all of this.
It should be about making things lighter, with less resources.
Should be encouraged to use a car less. But not penalised for using a car if you use it very little.

But if you spend a fortune on a 2 tonne mobile battery, you'll want to use it more not less.
 
OspreyO said:
We are going the wrong way with all of this.
It should be about making things lighter, with less resources.
Should be encouraged to use a car less. But not penalised for using a car if you use it very little.

But if you spend a fortune on a 2 tonne mobile battery, you'll want to use it more not less.
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So the curb weight of the BMW M3 is 3,840 lbs, Model 3 Performance 4,065 lbs.

So not really much in it, a lot less than people think. 100kg or 225lb.

In fact with AWD the BMW weighs more...

Worth noting that I purchased my model 3 performance for it's usable performance in real world situations, it constantly does 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, despite rain or temperature, zero launch control procedures. Also the instant reaction to the pedal is addictive. What other car offers that for £60k, paid cash so not even for tax reasons.

Note there are issues with the Model 3, but for me it was a pure value (performance) Vs cost winner. The LR with boost is ofc even better.
 
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Also regenerative braking also means it isn't really comparable and a real boon to electric cars. Ofc other cars can use batteries but to really work well for regen you need ones that can charge very fast etc, tending towards larger BEV batteries.
 
FerretBoy said:
So the curb weight of the BMW M3 is 3,840 lbs, Model 3 Performance 4,065 lbs.

So not really much in it, a lot less than people think. 100kg or 225lb.

In fact with AWD the BMW weighs more...

Worth noting that I purchased my model 3 performance for it's usable performance in real world situations, it constantly does 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, despite rain or temperature, zero launch control procedures. Also the instant reaction to the pedal is addictive. What other car offers that for £60k, paid cash so not even for tax reasons.

Note there are issues with the Model 3, but for me it was a pure value (performance) Vs cost winner. The LR with boost is ofc even better.
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Exactly the same position here, for the money (paid outright) there was little else that offered the performance AND the ability to carry the entire family around, whilst also costing less to run than a highly strung 2.0 Turbo.

Agreed that historically the LR with boost was the more logical option, but that’s not really true now, with only a £5k difference (£3.5k if you are committed to buying Boost) in base price, I’d rather have the wheels and brakes of the Performance (plus the carbon spoiler, the track mode software etc) for the difference in cost.
 
paradigm said:
Exactly the same position here, for the money (paid outright) there was little else that offered the performance AND the ability to carry the entire family around, whilst also costing less to run than a highly strung 2.0 Turbo.

Agreed that historically the LR with boost was the more logical option, but that’s not really true now, with only a £5k difference (£3.5k if you are committed to buying Boost) in base price, I’d rather have the wheels and brakes of the Performance (plus the carbon spoiler, the track mode software etc) for the difference in cost.
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Yeah, the Model 3 LR isn't a good proposition now considering the Y costs the same, and as you say, £5k extra gets you the performance. I'm surprised the SR and LR got price increases but the performance didn't. Maybe there was just too much between the two. Let's be honest, you didn't get much for your extra £10k.
 
Everything, and I mean everything, boils down to clean energy.

We’re running out of fresh water - if we had unlimited clean energy, we could desalinate water with no environmental cost.

We could produce limitless quantities of hydrogen to power cars without the environmental cost.


We could approach so many things differently if there was no environmental cost of energy.



We would have been well on our way to this goal had we continued investing and building nuclear power plants, but unfortunately, we caved into public/big corporates, who can make more money on fossil fuels.
 
500,000 gallons of heavily polluted water is used to create a single tonne of Lithium used in the EV battery...that alone should give you your definitive answer....they are not green at all!
 
McPhee said:
Do they?

https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/new...dy-this-much-more-climate-neutral-today.html#
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Yes, they do - its right there in your own source material.

The CO² emissions of building an ID3 is twice that of a petrol Golf 8.

It's widely known and accepted that BEVs only have a smaller CO² impact after a certain number of miles have been driven. That number is dependent on multiple factors of range economy and source of electricity.

In that link, they're using a 200k km utilisation figure.
 
I went out yesterday in my brother in laws Mustang EV - I hate the way it looks, I hate the way it handles, I hate the wheels and I hate the interior. I also hate the cheek of calling it a ‘mustang’.

it is however lethally quick.
 
fastwunz said:
I went out yesterday in my brother in laws Mustang EV - I hate the way it looks, I hate the way it handles, I hate the wheels and I hate the interior. I also hate the cheek of calling it a ‘mustang’.

it is however lethally quick.
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How would it compare around corners to say an Elise.
 
I had a run in the mega Audi eTron thing last week. Super quick and looks fantastic but it still comes back to the range.
 
TheOracle said:
Yeah, the Model 3 LR isn't a good proposition now considering the Y costs the same, and as you say, £5k extra gets you the performance. I'm surprised the SR and LR got price increases but the performance didn't. Maybe there was just too much between the two. Let's be honest, you didn't get much for your extra £10k.
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The Performance model received several £k prices increases throughout 2021
 
FerretBoy said:
So the curb weight of the BMW M3 is 3,840 lbs, Model 3 Performance 4,065 lbs.

So not really much in it, a lot less than people think. 100kg or 225lb.

In fact with AWD the BMW weighs more...

Worth noting that I purchased my model 3 performance for it's usable performance in real world situations, it constantly does 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, despite rain or temperature, zero launch control procedures. Also the instant reaction to the pedal is addictive. What other car offers that for £60k, paid cash so not even for tax reasons.

Note there are issues with the Model 3, but for me it was a pure value (performance) Vs cost winner. The LR with boost is ofc even better.
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An M3 isn't light.

Afaik weight of an Elise is 700kg or thereabouts.

The enemy of energy consumption is weight.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/great-weight-debate-why-are-cars-becoming-heavier
 
AWPC said:
500,000 gallons of heavily polluted water is used to create a single tonne of Lithium used in the EV battery...that alone should give you your definitive answer....they are not green at all!
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Wait it’s already polluted before you make lithium out of it? Wow sounds a good way to clean stuff up.

Please stop inventing “facts”
For anyone else the “when are you going electric” covers every point here atleast twice.

a single ton? even the biggest batteries use about 6kg so that’s not really a lot anyway!
 
AWPC said:
500,000 gallons of heavily polluted water is used to create a single tonne of Lithium used in the EV battery...that alone should give you your definitive answer....they are not green at all!
Click to expand...
The EV car makers aren’t saying their cars are ‘saving the planet’ - that headline comes from the likes of the Daily Mail and click bait social media.
They point is that they are less of an impact on the planet than the ICE way - drilling oil, refining that into fuel, shipping it all around the world and then burning it at ~25% efficiency.

For sure - EV’s are not perfect but most of what goes into building, and fuelling an EV is recyclable. Petrol/diesel doesn’t get recycled and it won’t last forever.
The argument of it takes ‘500k gallons of water …..’ is mute when you look and the fuel well to tank process.
 
Main observation I have from EV is people now seem to have this awareness and perceived understanding where they think stuff comes from.
I don’t think that’s really a bad thing, although the narrative is very different to that of oil where few really cared about the latest tanker spill. Odd really.
 
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