Are petrol stations having a laugh?

Frig me, petrol light was on today, and normally I always go to my local shell but was miles away... so pulls into Asda. Filling up and as I closed in on a full tank realised it was crapp E10... great in an engine that was designed in 1995/96... my Xedos 9... so, pulled away and it's running fine, but reallllly annoyed as I just forgot and feel a lot of people with classic cars might make same mistake. So, can't find out what my Xedos 9 can take, so going to have to run it then fill up on super from now on. not a happy bunny!
 
pugheaven said:
Frig me, petrol light was on today, and normally I always go to my local shell but was miles away... so pulls into Asda. Filling up and as I closed in on a full tank realised it was crapp E10... great in an engine that was designed in 1995/96... my Xedos 9... so, pulled away and it's running fine, but reallllly annoyed as I just forgot and feel a lot of people with classic cars might make same mistake. So, can't find out what my Xedos 9 can take, so going to have to run it then fill up on super from now on. not a happy bunny!
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Probably isn't actually E10 yet.

But yea, welcome to rip-off Britain. Now you have to pay the extra tax to not destroy your engine.
 
pugheaven said:
Frig me, petrol light was on today, and normally I always go to my local shell but was miles away... so pulls into Asda. Filling up and as I closed in on a full tank realised it was crapp E10... great in an engine that was designed in 1995/96... my Xedos 9... so, pulled away and it's running fine, but reallllly annoyed as I just forgot and feel a lot of people with classic cars might make same mistake. So, can't find out what my Xedos 9 can take, so going to have to run it then fill up on super from now on. not a happy bunny!
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You're probably fine, they've relabelled all the pumps at my local Tesco with E10 but there's a poster saying that it won't actually start supplying E10 until September.
 
MatsyLR said:
Surely that's the price to pay for driving a gas guzzler Instead of something more efficient?
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29mpg isn't what I'd class as gas guzzlers and personally I think the goverment forcing people to use E10 when there is only a more expensive super unleaded that you can then use which in tern makes more tax... that's the price we pay?

What I hate about this whole debacle is, It's got to do with decisions being made once again that we have no input into! My old motorbike would now need super as well, it's mental. Hey ho...

Anyhow, will run this down and as soon as half way or below will top up with proper fuel Nitro and just be getting ripped off hahaha. But hey it's the pay I pay for owning an older car that's more efficient than my 6.1ltr Jeep rofl
 
tom_e said:
You're probably fine, they've relabelled all the pumps at my local Tesco with E10 but there's a poster saying that it won't actually start supplying E10 until September.
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Yeah fingers crossed, but we shall see. Will start it up this morning, as I believe they can have more trouble starting from cold with this crap fuel in so... that'll be the giveaway as this thing starts first time everytime.
 
pugheaven said:
29mpg isn't what I'd class as gas guzzlers and personally I think the goverment forcing people to use E10 when there is only a more expensive super unleaded that you can then use which in tern makes more tax... that's the price we pay?

What I hate about this whole debacle is, It's got to do with decisions being made once again that we have no input into! My old motorbike would now need super as well, it's mental. Hey ho...
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What was the last legislation that was passed that the public had input into ?

As said, less that 1% of the U.K. car parc can’t use E10. For a 2% reduction in all petrol CO2 emissions it’s probably worth a bit of pain for those who will have to buy super. No?
 
Simon said:
What was the last legislation that was passed that the public had input into ?

As said, less that 1% of the U.K. car parc can’t use E10. For a 2% reduction in all petrol CO2 emissions it’s probably worth a bit of pain for those who will have to buy super. No?
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I agree we never get a say, but not sure my missus is happy "with a bit of pain" *don't laugh dirty boy* every tank of fuel costing considerably more now because she has to now use Super? However in this instance...
  1. The SMMT estimated that 92.2% to 95% of the petrol-engined vehicles in the UK are compatible with E10. That means 5.0 % - 7.8% are not, that's a lot, that's around 1 in 12 cars or 1 in 20 cars (dependant on which figure you believe) may not be compatible, that's a lot of cars!!! It's not like it's less than even 1%... it's a big number!
  2. My mum and dad, mates and the wife aren't even aware of these changes so normal people... just will be filling up oblivious... it's just happening. I've not seen any adverts on TV (although to be far I don't watch much TV now) and the only reason I know is because I'm a petrol head.
  3. You get less MPG, thus that has to be taken into consideration but is glossed over. And what makes me laugh is the government says you won't really notice. Mmm, so they push for efficiency in cars then enforce a fuel that isn't as efficient meaning we spend more money on fuel and don't go as far?
  4. If you are one of those 1 in 12 (1 in 20), you are forced to now by a more expensive fuel that the goverment over tax in the first place on so it's a win win for them. Why not reduce the tax on fuel by a few % as a sweetner so it has less effect on people? of course they won't they want their cake and eat it.
  5. I've not seen E10 being cheaper at the stations yet, by all accounts, it's cheaper to produce, less efficient, can cause old cars problems... but as end users we once again get stuffed.
BTW not having a go at you here by the way, it just got me thinking about this more and more how we literally have zero power in this country and take it in the rear all the time. Kinda looking at the pro's and con's I'm not seeing many pro's other than someone seems to think it's better for the atmosphere.
 
Simon said:
What was the last legislation that was passed that the public had input into ?

As said, less that 1% of the U.K. car parc can’t use E10. For a 2% reduction in all petrol CO2 emissions it’s probably worth a bit of pain for those who will have to buy super. No?
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5% actually. Plus the carbon saving claims haven't been verified. Lots of people say cars running on E10 do worse mpg which then offsets any carbon saving that was there in the first place from using more ethanol. Plus having to grow crops for fuel rather food brings its own issues.

Its just another tick box by the govt so they can claim to be green just like they do by moving their carbon generation offshore.
 
Greebo said:
5% actually. Plus the carbon saving claims haven't been verified. Lots of people say cars running on E10 do worse mpg which then offsets any carbon saving that was there in the first place from using more ethanol. Plus having to grow crops for fuel rather food brings its own issues.

Its just another tick box by the govt so they can claim to be green just like they do by moving their carbon generation offshore.
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100%
 
Greebo said:
5% actually. Plus the carbon saving claims haven't been verified. Lots of people say cars running on E10 do worse mpg which then offsets any carbon saving that was there in the first place from using more ethanol. Plus having to grow crops for fuel rather food brings its own issues.

Its just another tick box by the govt so they can claim to be green just like they do by moving their carbon generation offshore.
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It’s 2% including everything you speak about. The energy density isn’t much lower as to avoid octane giveaway the base fluid is able to be denser when blending with 9.6% ethanol (the max for E10)

Where did you read 5%
 
Simon said:
It’s 2% including everything you speak about. The energy density isn’t much lower as to avoid octane giveaway the base fluid is able to be denser when blending with 9.6% ethanol (the max for E10)

Where did you read 5%
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Pretty much every article on the subject says currently 5% of petrol cars wont be able to use E10. Okay that may well be 2% of ALL cars as soo many are diesel. :p Its still estimated to be one million cars in the UK which can't use it. Not an insignificant number.

https://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/e10-petrol.html

Also it is less energy in e10 fuel, its up to 3% less mpg.

“The energy content of ethanol is about 33% less than pure unleaded... economy varies depending on the amount of denaturant that is added to the ethanol. In general, vehicle fuel economy may decrease by about 3% when using E10”.


- The Energy Information Administration
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so everybody using it are going to use 3% more fuel than they used to use which will offset some of the carbon savings especially if its only offering a 2% reduction in emissions as you claim. overall the emissions are going to increase, not decrease! Unless the 2% takes account of the 3% less mpg?
 
Those numbers are not aligned with what the internal industry work has said but shell’s asterix just points to the government website so I guess that’s the number the government want to use.


You remember LRP fuel I guess when leaded was phased out ? Had its own dedicated tanks but that was something that they wanted to avoid this time. There needs to be incentive to move people onto E10. Those who want cheapest fuel will use it. Those who care about the fuel will buy super and get the other benefits beyond E5.
 
Simon said:
Those numbers are not aligned with what the internal industry work has said but shell’s asterix just points to the government website so I guess that’s the number the government want to use.


You remember LRP fuel I guess when leaded was phased out ? Had its own dedicated tanks but that was something that they wanted to avoid this time. There needs to be incentive to move people onto E10. Those who want cheapest fuel will use it. Those who care about the fuel will buy super and get the other benefits beyond E5.
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What incentive? It isnt been sold any cheaper, it gives you 3% worse mpg so you are actually paying more. I coud, understand if they reduced duty on E10 petrol to encourage its use and offset the lower fuel economy.

It seems all stick to me, no carrots anywhere.
 
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