Argh, ******* banks!
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The people you spoke to were either very rude and you should complain about their attitude, or they were retorting with the same attitude with which they were greeted.
With regards to the charges though; they have a standard unauthorized overdraft fee, and that is what they will charge anyone. NW charged me a similar amount for going less than £1 overdrawn for 24hours. Then when I asked for a small (£50) overdraft to stop it happening again, they refused because it had happened a few times in 4 years
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Most, if not all banks will charge you for these instances in the same way, some are better than others. Natwest are worse than most.
Maybe you should ask them for a small OD so it doesn't happen again.
With regards to the charges though; they have a standard unauthorized overdraft fee, and that is what they will charge anyone. NW charged me a similar amount for going less than £1 overdrawn for 24hours. Then when I asked for a small (£50) overdraft to stop it happening again, they refused because it had happened a few times in 4 years
.Most, if not all banks will charge you for these instances in the same way, some are better than others. Natwest are worse than most.
Maybe you should ask them for a small OD so it doesn't happen again.
JohnnyG said:Was that before you could read or something then? You simply can't moan about something you've agreed too
You can if what you have agreed to is illegal. Only the legal parts of contracts are binding - just like the unenforceable return policies of some e-tailers in an attempt to circumnavigate the Distance Selling Regulations.
You agreed to it - ok, fair enough. Doesnt make it any more legal.
I would just like to say at this point that it is entirely proper that the bank should charge for any losses incurred due to you abusing your account. The point that I have a problem with is the fact that the charges go way beyond this point and are excessive and designed to punish - which is totally wrong and (thankfully) unenforceable by the courts.
Do not just take this lying down, get them to give you what is yours back until they decide to levvy a reasonable charge that accurately reflects the cost to them.
Where would the legal discrepancy be if for instance their terms said that for going overdrawn we charge £20 per day & I signed that I agreed to that?
Surely that's just the same as agreeing to APR on a loan or credit card
Surely that's just the same as agreeing to APR on a loan or credit card
jamoor said:
You'll also get charged if the payments rejected, so no win situation really.
I've been with Natwest for years, and i've never encountered anyone that rude. I'd certainly complain about that if nothing else, they may refund the charge just for her attitude.
Try banking with Key Bank over in the US for a while, then.
I had an extenuating circumstance that put into overdraft without my knowledge. And I was out of town for a week, so didn't realise.
Key Bank's policy is to immediately charge a $38 overdraft fee. Whether you get the overdraft amount deposited the same day or not. Even if you walk in and deposit $200 at 9:00AM to cover a $20 purchase, but you had only $19 at 8:00AM. Because the counter deposit of cash takes 24 hours to clear, but the electronic purchase clears immediately.
Oh, and on top of that, they charge you that $38 every TWO business days (they include Saturday as a business day, even though the branches aren't open). They also charge you the $38 overdraft fee for each and every transaction that occours while the account is in the negative.
So if you go negative (unknowingly) and go fill your car up with petrol, get a pack of cigs at the local 7-11, buy a Happy meal at McDonalds, and then remember you need a lighter, all on your Visa Checkcard, you will be charged FOUR TIMES on the $38 overdraft fee for a total of $184 for $32 worth of purchases!!
oh, and if you DO manage to catch your account in the negative and make a deposit, the deposit transaction wil be subject to a $38 overdraft fee as the transaction was done while your account was in the negative!!
And yes, the above story is a replication of what happened to me. Over that week I was out of town, my account ended up over $1000 in the hole. All because the bank failed to follow through with a stop payment of a direct debit transfer. That they had confirmed themselves was supposed to stop. That I had reminded them of once a week for the four weeks leading up to it.
And when I caught them in thier mistake? "Oh, ok. We'll put back the funds for the direct debit, but you still owe us for the overdraft." But the entire overdraft situation was thier fault!!!
Needless to say, Key Bank is still out over $1000 as I immediately changed banks to one more reasonable than them. I squared the account up for everything I had purchased to that point, but told them they could stick thier "overdraft fees" where the sun don't shine as they weren't my fault nor my responsibility!!!
I had an extenuating circumstance that put into overdraft without my knowledge. And I was out of town for a week, so didn't realise.
Key Bank's policy is to immediately charge a $38 overdraft fee. Whether you get the overdraft amount deposited the same day or not. Even if you walk in and deposit $200 at 9:00AM to cover a $20 purchase, but you had only $19 at 8:00AM. Because the counter deposit of cash takes 24 hours to clear, but the electronic purchase clears immediately.
Oh, and on top of that, they charge you that $38 every TWO business days (they include Saturday as a business day, even though the branches aren't open). They also charge you the $38 overdraft fee for each and every transaction that occours while the account is in the negative.
So if you go negative (unknowingly) and go fill your car up with petrol, get a pack of cigs at the local 7-11, buy a Happy meal at McDonalds, and then remember you need a lighter, all on your Visa Checkcard, you will be charged FOUR TIMES on the $38 overdraft fee for a total of $184 for $32 worth of purchases!!
oh, and if you DO manage to catch your account in the negative and make a deposit, the deposit transaction wil be subject to a $38 overdraft fee as the transaction was done while your account was in the negative!!
And yes, the above story is a replication of what happened to me. Over that week I was out of town, my account ended up over $1000 in the hole. All because the bank failed to follow through with a stop payment of a direct debit transfer. That they had confirmed themselves was supposed to stop. That I had reminded them of once a week for the four weeks leading up to it.
And when I caught them in thier mistake? "Oh, ok. We'll put back the funds for the direct debit, but you still owe us for the overdraft." But the entire overdraft situation was thier fault!!!
Needless to say, Key Bank is still out over $1000 as I immediately changed banks to one more reasonable than them. I squared the account up for everything I had purchased to that point, but told them they could stick thier "overdraft fees" where the sun don't shine as they weren't my fault nor my responsibility!!!
JohnnyG said:
Its not quite like that. You sign a contract that says you wont go overdrawn. If you do, you agree to pay them the amount set out in their statement of charges or whatever.
When you go over your overdraft limit, you are in breach of your contract. They can now action the part of the contract where you agreed to pay them damages. There is a hefty amount of case law out there (although none regarding bank charges, the banks have never submitted a defence) where a judge has deemed a charge that is more than the costs incurred due to the breach of contract were unreasonable and excessive and as such could not be charged (and any money paid should be returned).
jamoor said:
That is not the banks job.
I get 100's of calls, each week, from people saying 'Why have you stopped my morgage payment??... I was only £20 short'.. and then people saying the opposite.. 'Well if the money isnt there, you shouldnt auth the transaction'... Banks cant win.
Look, you signed the conditions.. you took money that you were not authorised to do (So in actual fact, you are stealing.. you can call it borrowing all you want.. borrowing without permission is stealing).
And no.. that £22 is not interest, as you put it. Its a charge, that you agreed to when you opened the account. And I'm afraid claiming ignorance or stupidity isnt going to change that.
As some people have said, suck it up.. get over it, and move on.
If you had have came into the branch and got smart with me because you made the mistake, I wouldnt even refund £1.. let alone the rest. You took the money.. You went beyond what the bank had agreed your allowed.. you are in the wrong.
DRZ said:
Fair enough, he'll be asked to close his account. And as already said, all banks operate on the same basis... so unless there is some magical bank that doesnt charge for people spending money they dont have, I cant see the point.
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Pezboy said:
Its ironic that (roughly speaking) should a case of someone vs a bank ever get to a court that can set a precident and they rule in favour of the "someone" the directors of all banks that have made these charges can be prosecuted for theft (or a similar, related offence)
Its a bit vague I know, but I have it on reasonably sound authority that that is indeed the case.
Interesting stuff!
Pezboy said:
They can close my account if they want but if they did that to everyone, they wouldnt be making the £3bn profit they do every year from unjustifiable, unreasonable and excessive bank charges now would they
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Soldato
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Raymond Lin said:
He did say he doesn't have an overdraft. Shouldn't they have refused the payment rather then thief from him.
suicidle_tramp said:
No.. it is the account holders job to manage his finances. If he cant manage his spending, he should hire a financial adviser.
Guess what, that costs more than £33.
DRZ: Aye I've been reading about this over the last few weeks. It'd certainly be interesting to see someone do it
PS: I dont work for NatWest
Pezboy said:
Am I the only one who is
here?Man those accounts sound like a load of balls.
I think I will try to stick with the account that I have now which is a Barclays we dont trust you account. Basically they give me a £20 buffer and reject all other payments if my acc is in the red. How can they do that to me for free yet its hard for the bank to do it to other accounts.
jamoor said:Am I the only one who is
Man those accounts sound like a load of balls.
I think I will try to stick with the account that I have now which is a Barclays we dont trust you account. Basically they give me a £20 buffer and reject all other payments if my acc is in the red. How can they do that to me for free yet its hard for the bank to do it to other accounts.
Would that be the standard BBA.. or the Cashcard account?
Either way, you dont have a £20 buffer, not anymore, that was decreased to £5 about 3 weeks ago.
I work for Barclays.