He also says you cant make them stronger, He believes the premier league will suffer if it contiune's to follow FFP by the book, he goes on to say about people investing in clubs and why shouldn't they be allowed, as football has become the most powerful sport in the world
Arsenal FC - A complete shambles. What needs to change? *Please read OP before posting*
- Thread starter BaZ87
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Yeah i remember all the talk of the Nigerian saying he would sack wenger . Maybe he'd be better than silent
Caporegime
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On the first part, you don't really get it do you. PSG were sanctioned a MINOR amount for putting 200mil extra into their club a year. They still put that 200mil in, they wouldn't have been able to pay their player wages or have the squad they had without that 200mil. Uefa did exactly nothing to stop that 200mil being used to keep the club going. The sanctions weren't get out of the champs league, it wasn't you're banned from the champs league till you start turning a profit again, it was a slap on the wrist. The clubs KNEW they would only get a slap on the wrist meaning if a club chooses to put in 200mil, as PSG did, then they can and FFP tells them "oh how naughty, now give us 10mil as a fine and continue breaking the rules as you please".
PSG got 100mil a year inside the ffp rules when Utd, in a league with maybe 6-7 times the average viewership worldwide was getting half that for a shirt sponsor.
You're replying as if both City and PSG were hit so hard they stopped cheating....... they didn't. Likewise that 100mil 'fair market value' tag that uefa put on that insane 200mil PSG deal also greenlighted the way for growth. IF 100mil was 'fair market value' in 2013, then maybe 115mil is fair in 2014, and 130mil in 2015, etc, etc. Hence them trying to 'up' their deal to 175mil this year(and they believe that will get inside the official rules so they can also avoid a slap on the wrist). Can you actively not see how FFP hasn't hurt City or PSG? You can put 2 less people in the CL squad... so, take the two least important players and they get used more than normal in the pre/post CL games in the league.
It was non punishment and they immediately got around the rules. If PSG had to work directly within FFP, even within that ridiculous 100mil fair deal FFP sanctioned, they wouldn't have been able to afford Ibra for 3 seasons, or probably 50% of the new buys they made in the past 4-5 years on big wages.
As for the rest, again, if they money was intended to be taken out of the club.... logic states it would have, because there is not a single viable reason to wait nor wait a decade either. If it wasn't for the spending in the past 5 years, we may have half a billion in that account, that Arsenal allow spending is simply fact, that Arsenal want wage bill to maintain a small profit for the club is also fact.... the line in the sand here is that Wenger chooses to have a huge squad which actively limits how many big wage big name players he can buy because the wage bill leaves no room.
THe problem is this isn't new, it's been happening since really the start with Wenger, he always had a bigger squad and he always limited wages even for the likes of Henry, RVP and others, most of those players left for a combination of being better paid and better success elsewhere. We always had issues with wages BEFORE we had 200mil in the bank because Wenger always gave lesser players too much cash to barely ever appear and always had a huge squad.
Again, if Kroenke intended to bleed the club for the money and profits, why hasn't he? He's the owner, he shows very clearly he doesn't give the slightest damn what people think about him yet he's never made any move to take money out of the club nor limit our spending in any way other than maintaining a small profit which is simply common sense. If Wenger kept a much smaller squad he could use that wage bill on vastly improved players... just less of them. Again this is a choice Wenger makes, he didn't have to keep offering Diaby, Rosicky and every other barely used players new contracts, he chose to. Why on earth is Campbell still owned by Arsenal, Wenger used him for like 4 weeks when everyone else was injured, he was far more effective than Walcott, Ox, etc, yet when they were fit he was out on his arse again and still he's at Arsenal.
In terms of not having money to spend, I didn't see that from anyone with any worth and in fact the only slightly knowledgable sounding sources specifically stated that we won't spend the money in the bank account because our wage bill is too high and we can't afford the wages that come with using up that money.
Yes, they were sanctioned therefore everybody didn't know how to get around FFP from day 1 as you said or else they wouldn't have been sanctioned. The sanctions put on them restricted what they could spend the following years too so they weren't just a slap on the wrist.
Anyway, as above lets get this thread back on topic and keep it to discussing the structure of the club not FFP or Nigerian billionaires.
I didn't say he was on the board, and me bringing his name into this discussion was to do with ownership and management as you want this thread to be, also if I said to you a year ago that Neymar would move for near 200 million you would say I'm talking fairytales
.Ive been a gooner for over 24 years now seen some unbelievable things like arsenal go unbeaten, move stadiums and as a football fan seen Greece win the euros, Liverpool win the cl in the most dramatic way so fairytales do happen, I will try an stick to the rules baz
Reports of the arsenal board lining up Germany boss Low as Wengers replacement. Source is bundesliga expert Lee Price stating the board see him as a more safer option than some others that have been looked at and is a winner at club and national level.
Soldato
Would rather they bring Patrick Vieira back into the fold.
Soldato
No. He's weird!
Soldato
Haha I knew that was going to get posted!
Caporegime
Who cares if he is weird, results is what we care about. Plus they have clearly messed about in that video making it look worse, like playing it in reverse etc. Just childish.
Soldato
Would much prefer someone like Simeone
Caporegime
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Low would be an incredibly bad idea, he hasn't coached at club level in what, 15 ish years? INternational football, no transfers to deal with, no wages, no persuading players to join you rather than someone else, no motivation for playing game in game out or weaker competitions, no keeping stars happy or they'll ask for a switch of clubs. International level football is of a vastly lower quality and a completely different managerial experience and set of problems. For one thing at international level there is basically zero coaching to improve how good players are, it's all about trying to get a team to play together as a group as they play at different clubs. You pick the people playing well and talented players.
He is the opposite of the issue England have, England kept hiring club managers for an international job which had different requirements, Low would be doing the same, a guy who is successful at international level but is in essence a completely different job to club level where he wasn't very successful.
Simeone would have been great, I do wonder if Arsenal or at least some other big club had him interested in the job because a while back for whatever reason he renegotiated his deal with Atletico to reduce the contract length which basically never happens, it felt like he was off and waiting for a specific job. Then after this summer he's signed a new 2 or 3 year deal with Atletico so I certainly wondered if Arsenal were gearing up for Wenger leaving with Simeone being talked to privately about taking over, then Wenger decided to stay and Simeone said well I ain't waiting any longer and committed himself to Atletico.
We've missed numerous good managers who could have been great choices all in a period Arsenal have done nothing and Wenger could have left any time when someone good was available. I wanted Poch, that came and went and ended up terribly for us.
I'm actually leaning towards Silva, partly because I can't stand Merson and would love to see him win the league with Arsenal just to show him what an idiot he is. But realistically Silva improved Hull significantly more than Alladyce or Clement improved Palace/Swansea respectively. He had a bigger points per game improvement, I think scored more points than both maybe, he had next to no money to spend while both the others spent a fair amount and the actual football improved incredibly obviously. Then in a short time he's made Watford look a hell of a lot better, they've got 8 points in 4 games. Drew with Liverpool, beat Bournemouth and Southampton away and only conceded to Liverpool in the league.
As yet he's giving me the same feel Poch did, he's improving the players at the club, he's doing well motivationally, he's improving defence and offence, he's improving the system. He's also show the strength and sense to say hey, Deeney's effective and he's captain, but he's not good enough so he's dropped. We absolutely need someone to do what Poch did to spurs, come in and have the strength to say I don't care if you're the longest serving player, the captain or the most popular player with the other players, you're not good enough in some way so you're done. Spurs needed Sandro, Paulinho and others gone and Arsenal need just so many players gone.
I'm not saying Silva for sure, but so far he is showing all the positive signs of a really great manager of the future and if we went for a smaller name showing all the right signs again rather than a big name, then I think he should be very very high up the list and fairly high up the list even if you include big names. The thing is for big names I'm not sure who would be interested, out of the CL, best players leaving, difficult squad which needs a load of people shoved out but which could be extremely difficult due to Wenger handing contracts to every rubbish player at Arsenal with rumours of Wenger offering contract extensions to Walcott, Welbeck, Ramsey and others this season could make the job even more difficult.
He is the opposite of the issue England have, England kept hiring club managers for an international job which had different requirements, Low would be doing the same, a guy who is successful at international level but is in essence a completely different job to club level where he wasn't very successful.
Simeone would have been great, I do wonder if Arsenal or at least some other big club had him interested in the job because a while back for whatever reason he renegotiated his deal with Atletico to reduce the contract length which basically never happens, it felt like he was off and waiting for a specific job. Then after this summer he's signed a new 2 or 3 year deal with Atletico so I certainly wondered if Arsenal were gearing up for Wenger leaving with Simeone being talked to privately about taking over, then Wenger decided to stay and Simeone said well I ain't waiting any longer and committed himself to Atletico.
We've missed numerous good managers who could have been great choices all in a period Arsenal have done nothing and Wenger could have left any time when someone good was available. I wanted Poch, that came and went and ended up terribly for us.
I'm actually leaning towards Silva, partly because I can't stand Merson and would love to see him win the league with Arsenal just to show him what an idiot he is. But realistically Silva improved Hull significantly more than Alladyce or Clement improved Palace/Swansea respectively. He had a bigger points per game improvement, I think scored more points than both maybe, he had next to no money to spend while both the others spent a fair amount and the actual football improved incredibly obviously. Then in a short time he's made Watford look a hell of a lot better, they've got 8 points in 4 games. Drew with Liverpool, beat Bournemouth and Southampton away and only conceded to Liverpool in the league.
As yet he's giving me the same feel Poch did, he's improving the players at the club, he's doing well motivationally, he's improving defence and offence, he's improving the system. He's also show the strength and sense to say hey, Deeney's effective and he's captain, but he's not good enough so he's dropped. We absolutely need someone to do what Poch did to spurs, come in and have the strength to say I don't care if you're the longest serving player, the captain or the most popular player with the other players, you're not good enough in some way so you're done. Spurs needed Sandro, Paulinho and others gone and Arsenal need just so many players gone.
I'm not saying Silva for sure, but so far he is showing all the positive signs of a really great manager of the future and if we went for a smaller name showing all the right signs again rather than a big name, then I think he should be very very high up the list and fairly high up the list even if you include big names. The thing is for big names I'm not sure who would be interested, out of the CL, best players leaving, difficult squad which needs a load of people shoved out but which could be extremely difficult due to Wenger handing contracts to every rubbish player at Arsenal with rumours of Wenger offering contract extensions to Walcott, Welbeck, Ramsey and others this season could make the job even more difficult.
Soldato
I think Simeone would be given a chance, he's done well with a limited budget at Atletico, he would have a similar situation at Arsenal, not all the funds in the world but still a lot better than most clubs, although the PL is very different to La Liga, he's got a bit of George Graham in him with how he sets his teams up. It's hard to tell what that might do to the Arsenal brand though
Caporegime
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Moyes was a terrible manager who was the opposite of what Utd needed. Fergie wasn't spending, he wasn't replacing the midfield and he was leaving the path open for a new manager to build his own thing. Moyes came in and literally played the exact same squad for a dozen games till a few injuries happened. He needed to sell 10 players and buy 10 players, instead he sold basically no one, gave Rooney a laughable new deal and bought Fellaini.
A new manager isn't onto a hiding if they do the right things and Fergie won a title, he didn't drop out of the top 4 before Moyes took over. If Fergie had only achieved 5th in the league would Moyes's 7th place be that much of a failure in comparison?
If we get a Moyes type who comes in and tries to integrate himself into the existing squad as opposed to coming in to build his own team then we'll have the same issues. If we get a manager with the strength to get rid of those who aren't good enough we'll be a better team for it. Might we drop places during a rebuilding phase, we might, we could easily do better. Even the best managers can get caught out if a great player simply doesn't perform, great managers make buys you would think might be good but turn out to be terrible, that is life.
We've been ineffective for a decade, if we are better for the next 10 years but do worse for one year, who honestly cares.
Soldato
How are you meant to buy 10 and sell 10 in 2 months? lol
I think the opposite to you, I hope the new manager comes in and analyses what players he has before making any expensive and rash decisions, take a year a to figure which players can feature in your setup and then over the next 2 or 3 summers buy and sell the players needed/not needed.
I think the opposite to you, I hope the new manager comes in and analyses what players he has before making any expensive and rash decisions, take a year a to figure which players can feature in your setup and then over the next 2 or 3 summers buy and sell the players needed/not needed.
Caporegime
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You realise that a new manager doesn't have to know literally nothing about a player when he joins. It's clear as day who isn't good enough at the club and any manager in a top league who has scouted Arsenal should have a relatively clear picture of who the weakest players are and if you can't see who has the wrong attitude in a month of training well they won't be a good manager.
How long did it take Poch to identify the problematic players or those not good enough and those he believed he could improve? After that time it still was around 18 months before Walker, Rose and half the rest of that team took a major step forward. Wasting a year training the wrong players with a bad attitude will take a lot longer not least because you won't get replacements for another year but those players, their poor attitudes will have a continuous effect on a team.
The simple fact is with Wenger we've had 3/4 of the squad cruise from one new contract to another, never trying. None will even take a new manager seriously about working harder and being better if they all get kept on. Where Wenger ignored the lack of improvement and poor attitudes from the same players over and over, the way to change the culture at Arsenal, to say it's not acceptable is actually show that those who aren't improving will be shown the door...... is to actually show the door to some players.
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