Arsenal FC - A complete shambles. What needs to change? *Please read OP before posting*

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As I said, it's about progress. If after 4 seasons we're still hovering in the same position and there's no sign that we're getting nearer to the top then fans will want a change. That's not to mean he'd have done a bad job. Discounting another Leicester scenario, we're still in a position now where Liverpool (or Arsenal) have 5 other sides that in any season could finish above them. All 6 sides can't qualify for the CL let alone finish 1st - you have to look a bit deeper and ask yourself whether things are improving and if not, will they in the future.

Why are you being so defensive? :confused:

If you read through my posts regarding Liverpool over the last 7 years or so you'll see I've been more critical of our club than anybody. Chopping and changing every 5 minutes most certainly isn't the answer but there's a huge jump from that to the situation at Arsenal. If Wenger had been at the club 2 seasons and there were signs that things were moving forwards then great. Can any Arsenal supporter say there's been progress at Arsenal in the past 10 years though? Looking from the outside I don't see it.

As I said, Arsenal haven't underperformed in any given season over those 10 years - they've always finished in the position they've supposed to be, give or take. The problem is that nothing is changing, there's no signs of progress and it's difficult to see if how things will improve under Wenger. If Arsenal fans are happy to finish between 5th-2nd every season, get to the last 16 of the CL and win a domestic cup every few years then fair enough but the growing unrest suggests they're not.

Two seasons ago you finished above Spurs but the general feeling was Spurs had the better season, why? It wasn't just because Spurs have fewer resources, it was because there was clear progress from Spurs. They were building a side and things were improving. Arsenal was the same old Arsenal, they'll threaten to challenge and then when it counts they'll fall away only to come back strong in the final weeks, when it's too little too late.

Apologies if it came across that way.

My point is two fold. Liverpool have been doing exactly what people are suggesting Arsenal do and it hasn't worked. I like Klopp a lot but he is erratic and I don't see Liverpool winning the PL or CL in the next 5 years.

Also maybe Arsenal and Liverpool are where we are because of forces outside of our control. Whatever nonsense is spouted about season ticket prices and how we've had or spent fortunes, we cannot compete financially with 3 of the other teams in the leagues (I have no idea about Liverpool's finances), no where near. Anyone saying Arsenal should be progressing I ask how, in light of the fact that some teams can spend on one or two players without breaking a sweat what our whole transfer budget is? Highest season ticket prices means nothing next to a Russian or Arab sugar daddy.
 
Failure = having the most expensive tickets in the EPL and not being able to capitaliseon that revenue stream , getting smashed by a team that was relegation fodder and then having 10 goals put past you over 2 legs in the champions league. Your league position is worse than last year and the points gap between you and your nearest rivals was wide enough to drive a bus through. 11pts to spurs and 18 to chelsea. Please now explain how this equates to a successful season ? If you think this was a successful campaign/ season then Arsenal fans are easily pleased. Personally I feel sorry for your fans, they deserve more for the outrageous ticket prices they have to fork out. Did you know the only team in the whole of Europe with more expensive season tickets than Arsenal is PSG and at least they are fighting to win the league pretty much every season and make a good showing for themselves in Europe

What has the price of the season ticket got to do with it when other teams can and do just spend money on a whim? If you can tell me how Arsenal or any other team can progress and compete in the face of that then I'm all ears. It's those prices that have helped us to compete for a top four place. PSG are the French Man City except it's even less competitive there. No real comparison at all.

Anyone expecting progress for their team in the current climate is being unrealistic. Spurs have done really well this season, but it's about sustaining that and there is no guarantee, especially as they go through a ground upgrade.
 
As I said, it's about progress. If after 4 seasons we're still hovering in the same position and there's no sign that we're getting nearer to the top then fans will want a change. That's not to mean he'd have done a bad job. Discounting another Leicester scenario, we're still in a position now where Liverpool (or Arsenal) have 5 other sides that in any season could finish above them. All 6 sides can't qualify for the CL let alone finish 1st - you have to look a bit deeper and ask yourself whether things are improving and if not, will they in the future.

Why are you being so defensive? :confused:

If you read through my posts regarding Liverpool over the last 7 years or so you'll see I've been more critical of our club than anybody. Chopping and changing every 5 minutes most certainly isn't the answer but there's a huge jump from that to the situation at Arsenal. If Wenger had been at the club 2 seasons and there were signs that things were moving forwards then great. Can any Arsenal supporter say there's been progress at Arsenal in the past 10 years though? Looking from the outside I don't see it.

As I said, Arsenal haven't underperformed in any given season over those 10 years - they've always finished in the position they've supposed to be, give or take. The problem is that nothing is changing, there's no signs of progress and it's difficult to see if how things will improve under Wenger. If Arsenal fans are happy to finish between 5th-2nd every season, get to the last 16 of the CL and win a domestic cup every few years then fair enough but the growing unrest suggests they're not.

Two seasons ago you finished above Spurs but the general feeling was Spurs had the better season, why? It wasn't just because Spurs have fewer resources, it was because there was clear progress from Spurs. They were building a side and things were improving. Arsenal was the same old Arsenal, they'll threaten to challenge and then when it counts they'll fall away only to come back strong in the final weeks, when it's too little too late.
There is no progress for the past 10 years.

People who do not support arsenal want wenger to stay because his soo predictable and not a bother if your side is competing for the title.

I wanted wenger gone ages ago. Its time he left. His had 10 years of stalemate.
 
Apologies if it came across that way.

My point is two fold. Liverpool have been doing exactly what people are suggesting Arsenal do and it hasn't worked. I like Klopp a lot but he is erratic and I don't see Liverpool winning the PL or CL in the next 5 years.

Also maybe Arsenal and Liverpool are where we are because of forces outside of our control. Whatever nonsense is spouted about season ticket prices and how we've had or spent fortunes, we cannot compete financially with 3 of the other teams in the leagues (I have no idea about Liverpool's finances), no where near. Anyone saying Arsenal should be progressing I ask how, in light of the fact that some teams can spend on one or two players without breaking a sweat what our whole transfer budget is? Highest season ticket prices means nothing next to a Russian or Arab sugar daddy.
You do know that kronke is well off. And even the Russian bloke who wants to take over is more wealthier then Roman abromovich.

The problem is not that our owners and board members are not as wealthy as chelsea/city/united owners. Its that they refuse to spend money and just leech off of the paying fans
 
You do know that kronke is well off. And even the Russian bloke who wants to take over is more wealthier then Roman abromovich.

The problem is not that our owners and board members are not as wealthy as chelsea/city/united owners. Its that they refuse to spend money and just leech off of the paying fans

I know that yes. Not sure how it relates to what I said though. Having money and not spending it is just the same as not having it.
 
Apologies if it came across that way.

My point is two fold. Liverpool have been doing exactly what people are suggesting Arsenal do and it hasn't worked. I like Klopp a lot but he is erratic and I don't see Liverpool winning the PL or CL in the next 5 years.

Also maybe Arsenal and Liverpool are where we are because of forces outside of our control. Whatever nonsense is spouted about season ticket prices and how we've had or spent fortunes, we cannot compete financially with 3 of the other teams in the leagues (I have no idea about Liverpool's finances), no where near. Anyone saying Arsenal should be progressing I ask how, in light of the fact that some teams can spend on one or two players without breaking a sweat what our whole transfer budget is? Highest season ticket prices means nothing next to a Russian or Arab sugar daddy.

Surely you can see the difference between changing manager every 2 years and changing every 20 years? Between Benitez leaving and Rodgers arriving Liverpool were in a stage where they were a mess - there was no proper plan or vision in place and we were making changes for the sake of change. Rodgers appointment was a sign that the club was beginning to sort itself out but ultimately he proved not to be the right man - he reached the stage Wenger's been at these past couple of years, where you just don't know how things will improve and a change had to be made.

Whether Klopp turns out to be the right man and whether he can take the club forward and challenge for those titles, only time will tell. But as a supporter I want to see the club trying to improve, not settling for 4th or 5th because that's where people say they should finish. You ask how Arsenal can improve when there's 3 sides with more money than them - take a look down the road at Spurs. They've got 5 sides with more money than them - they have far fewer resources than Liverpool, let alone Utd or City but they've managed to improve over the last few years, finishing 3rd and now 2nd. Liverpool very nearly won the league a few seasons ago with 4 clubs having greater resources than them. It's not easy and it would be harsh to say a manager has failed if they can't bridge the financial gap but it's possible - you've got to be smarter, you've got to do things a bit differently and it will probably take a bit more time to achieve.

As I've said, Arsenal haven't really underachieved the last 10 years - they've finished where they should finish give or take a place or 2 every season. The discontent among supporters show you that they're not satisfied with that though - they want to believe that things can improve and don't see how Wenger can do that.

For that reason I'd want Wenger to go if I was an Arsenal fan but even if I was one of the few that was happy coasting along, finishing where the club 'should' finish, there's another reason why I'd still want him to leave. Arsenal have become a toxic club. Wenger has lost too many of the supporters and they're past the point of no return. Everything Wenger does is wrong in their eyes - if you win it's despite of him and the first time you drop points all hell will break loose again. The negativity around Arsenal won't change while Wenger remains at the club*. Sometimes a club needs a fresh start and that's never been truer than at Arsenal.

*Short of him winning every game until Christmas.
 
Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger has signed a new two-year deal at the club.

The contract does not include a break clause and, should it be completed, will extend his reign to 23 years.

Neither Arsenal nor Wenger, 67, see this as definitely being his final contract.

The Gunners finished fifth in the Premier League this season, the first time they have finished outside the top four since the Frenchman joined in 1996.

They finished 18 points behind champions Chelsea, but beat the Blues 2-1 to win the FA Cup at Wembley on Saturday.

Wenger met club owner Stan Kroenke on Monday to determine his future, with the decision relayed to directors at a Tuesday board meeting and an official announcement expected on Wednesday.

More to follow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40103874

Wenger Forever.
 
Surely you can see the difference between changing manager every 2 years and changing every 20 years? Between Benitez leaving and Rodgers arriving Liverpool were in a stage where they were a mess - there was no proper plan or vision in place and we were making changes for the sake of change. Rodgers appointment was a sign that the club was beginning to sort itself out but ultimately he proved not to be the right man - he reached the stage Wenger's been at these past couple of years, where you just don't know how things will improve and a change had to be made.

Whether Klopp turns out to be the right man and whether he can take the club forward and challenge for those titles, only time will tell. But as a supporter I want to see the club trying to improve, not settling for 4th or 5th because that's where people say they should finish. You ask how Arsenal can improve when there's 3 sides with more money than them - take a look down the road at Spurs. They've got 5 sides with more money than them - they have far fewer resources than Liverpool, let alone Utd or City but they've managed to improve over the last few years, finishing 3rd and now 2nd. Liverpool very nearly won the league a few seasons ago with 4 clubs having greater resources than them. It's not easy and it would be harsh to say a manager has failed if they can't bridge the financial gap but it's possible - you've got to be smarter, you've got to do things a bit differently and it will probably take a bit more time to achieve.

As I've said, Arsenal haven't really underachieved the last 10 years - they've finished where they should finish give or take a place or 2 every season. The discontent among supporters show you that they're not satisfied with that though - they want to believe that things can improve and don't see how Wenger can do that.

For that reason I'd want Wenger to go if I was an Arsenal fan but even if I was one of the few that was happy coasting along, finishing where the club 'should' finish, there's another reason why I'd still want him to leave. Arsenal have become a toxic club. Wenger has lost too many of the supporters and they're past the point of no return. Everything Wenger does is wrong in their eyes - if you win it's despite of him and the first time you drop points all hell will break loose again. The negativity around Arsenal won't change while Wenger remains at the club*. Sometimes a club needs a fresh start and that's never been truer than at Arsenal.

*Short of him winning every game until Christmas.

Want and should is the thing. I want and want to believe that Arsenal progress to a point where they can win the league but I guess my expectation is that I don't think they can whoever is in charge because of the financial state of the game. It's possible of course but extremely unlikely. For all of their progress this season, I don't think Spurs will get near it next season either. I don't feel I am being defeatist or wanting to coast along (and I think there are more than a few who feel that way).

Spurs are the anomaly at the moment but they still have a lot to prove. Poch has done amazingly well by buying strong, young hungry players but the next few seasons are the real test. It's also taken them decades of rubbish to get to this point. I said in another post that Arsenal certainly missed a lot of great players when they became available in the last few years which is disappointing but then everyone's scouting is awesome now so.

I would have liked to see a change this season because I have great respect for Arsene and hate to see the hate he is getting but also as you said, the club needs something fresh.

I do think that Arsenal and Arsene will improve next season though. I don't think the formation change was just a psychological change for the team. Some players who's form had been poor for some time started to flourish and look like the players they should be. I hope Arsene sticks with it.
 
Music to my ears :p

Imagine if Wenger beat Fergie's record as longest manager? Jonny and co would become a Chelsea/Man City supporters by that stage I fear. lol :D

He's already beaten it, Wenger is now the longest serving manager in English football.

Or do you mean for a single club?
 
He's already beaten it, Wenger is now the longest serving manager in English football.
Ferguson was Manchester United manager for 26 years, was he not?

Wenger would need to be Arsenal manager until 2022/23 to match that.
 
But you are still wrong anyway no? :p

I had a quick Google search, seems like they forgot ferguson :p

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"Neither Arsenal nor Wenger, 67, see this as definitely being his final contract."

Maybe his plan is to die in the job.
 
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