Soldato
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I’m not sure you’ve read what was alleged to have been said. It didn’t read like an ice-breaker.
Asking someone where they are from
- Thread starter Lysander
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I’m not sure you’ve read what was alleged to have been said. It didn’t read like an ice-breaker.
I doubt she would even if it is incorrect, I mean it seems obviously plausible that she asked in a cackhanded manner and there was some sort of confrontation, a bit of attitude from Miss Black Panther cast member too. I doubt most people could recall those many lines exactly, all the verification is really telling us that the Lady in waiting has come off as rude/insensitive with some heritage questions and some back-and-forth interaction occurred that wasn't exactly friendly.
Soldato
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How is that racist ?!?!
If i meet someoen with an Australian accent and ask them what part of Australia they are from is that also racist or somethingicst?
Get a grip!
Soldato
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Turn the tables. If the lady in question had said “I run a charity, what do you do? How old are you? No really, how old? And what, you‘ve not done a days work for 83 years? You must have got that ride because of your connections!” would the conclusion be “how rude!”?
Why is the repetition what makes it "racist"? Rather than rude or annoying? You don't even attempt to explain, you just throw in a little rant that anyone who questions this must be racist themselves.
Also, it's a bit presumptive to assume it's purely based on skin colour; there's the obvious context of the name (the name badge and brushing hair aside to read it was focused on in the reporting too) and the outfit/costume.
But let's assume it was just prompted by skin colour, asking about someone's heritage isn't racist and someone who is not white British clearly has some heritage from elsewhere - there isn't anything inherently iracist in being curious about that.
Caporegime
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Have you read the transcript or are you just replying to someone who massively simplified the exchange that happened ?
It's not racist to ask where anyone is from.
However, when they tell you where you grew up, and you then keep asking "no, where are you really from" or "where are your people from" then yes, that is a bit racist.
If she bowled up to the woman and simply said:
Q: "Where are you from?"
A: Hackey.
Q: Where are your family from originally?
Then nobody would have batted an eyelid.
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Again, there isn't really a transcript (or at least it's not transcripted from any recorded audio/video), there is some recollection from memory of the interaction. The opening interaction may well have been along those lines but both of them appear to have become stubborn with a combo of noninformative responses and the Lady in waiting not backing down either.
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A normal person would just answer the damn question, if what the woman claims is true she was being avoidant for the sake of it.
they should have just told her to leave if she didn't want to be there and kicked her out.
why pander to these people? just attention seekers desperately clutching for something to whine about
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You would likely only get an Australian accent if you lived in Australia. Having black skin doesn't mean you had to directly done from Africa.
Soldato
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We have to look technically at this I think. I've also changed my mind since yesterday because of this:
It's clearly not the second definition - asking someone where they are from isn't evidence of any underlying belief that they are inferior.
The first part of the definition - was there prejudice, discrimination or antagonism specifically because the person was a member of an alternative racial group?
Possibly, and this depends on how overt you think it needs to be. One could say that there was prejudice in assuming the black woman wasn't British. However that assumption (in terms of heritage) is a correct one. So if something is factual how can it be racist? One could also say there was some mild antagonism there, in the line of questioning. But was that just someone being rude and a bit snotty, perhaps in response to a lack of participation in the expected conversation from the other person? We don't know for sure.
Having looked at this in this more forensic way to the definition I can see how the encounter could fit the definition of racist in this case.
However I personally think it an incredibly minor breach of the definition and certainly not beyond the bounds of uncertainty on the other explanations for the awkward encounter.
Sure and in this case she hasn't, she's British African-Carribean, but she was dressed up as if she was wearing some sort of African national dress and has changed her name from Marlene Headly to Ngozi Fulani so it's not too surprising that someone might assume she was African or of recent African heritage.
And there's nothing wrong with making such logical assumptions.
The issue is asking someone where they are from and not being satisfied with what they told you and asking them "where they're really from".
This lady isn't some idiot with no understanding of language. Presumably she's clever enough to know the difference between where someone is from and the heritage they are from.
What's that Einstein quite? Something about madness being defined as doing the same thing and expecting a different result. That's what she was doing. Asking the same question but wanting a different answer.
Soldato
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And I thought she didn't know where she was from?
You’re ignoring the context of @GordyR ’s post. The circumstances were unlike your example.
Yes - repeatedly refusing to accept ‘British’ as an answer to where someone is ‘really from’ because of their racial appearance is racist. It might be from a position of ignorance, or stupidity, or a lack sensitivity, but it’s still racist behaviour.
The ‘repetition’ is indicative of a sustained denial (or rejection) of the other person’s identification of self. In this instance, the sustained denial is based on the perceived race of the other person.
It’s quite unpleasant and regretful, but regretful things can spawn betterment and growth.
Soldato
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We're all star dust from the big bang too.
I'd like to interject with an anecdote my sister told me when she was studying at St. Andrews. With St. Andrews being a tiny scottish village and this during the late 90s/early 2000s, my sister was attending a university ball and she had dressed in her smart Indian formal clothes as well as wearing a bindi (a shiny gold sequined one, not simply colouring), whilst waiting at the bus stop a little old Scottish lady interrogated her about her dress and asked her of she was born with the bindi. Hilarious. That is all.
To be fair, and to paraphrase her own words... she got there in the end. Turns out you can repeat the same action and get a different outcome eventually.
However, is that actually what happened or was it simply a byproduct of a clumsy, ignorant old posh-o seeking answers from a stubborn, defensive, old bat?
From what I have seen of this woman she is struggling with or has a borderline personality disorder. I feel people like this should not be entertained or given any form of spot light.
The country is acting like this woman was racially abused, and she's milking it to ****.
But we're never going to know for sure the precise language used at each line of the interaction and that fuss over the exact way it was asked is about rudeness or being crass rather than racism. What we can reasonably assume is that some back and forth ensued where both of them seem to have been stubborn.
The guest likely knew what was being asked but decided to be difficult, the Lady in waiting seemingly wasn't having that and persisted with her questioning too.
Now it's turned into a big culture war press story I'm not sure she's necessarily going to be keen to get too involved or comment on it much.
She likely did. In the same way I often understand what they're getting at. But it gets tiring have to answer the same questions.
If she would've just asked what her heritage was then there would be no room for insult. Asking where someone is 'really from' leaves room to be insulted so you can't really expect someone who feels they've been slighted to want to cooporate with the person who didn't have the decency to be tactful.
It shouldn't be on the person who is expected to divulge personal information to be clear. That's down to the person wanting to ask the question