Asking someone where they are from

C Kent said:
It's not a transcript, it's a recollection from memory, 2 very distinct things. Given people's 'character testimony' that have popped up on Twitter etc I wouldn't trust the grifter's version of events without question no, especially as apparently words, not context or intent are the important factor according to folks such as yourself.
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That isnt what i am saying. I am saying that if you want to debate the actual words used (which is the main issue in this entire debate), you have to accept (for the sake of the argument), that it is accurate.

Even having said that, I think the transcript is very likely to be accurate, because there is an eye witness, and the palace/SH have not disputed NF's recollection of it.
 
Tony Edwards said:
So you are saying she made it up to make it sound racist or not? If it doesnt sound racist to you why are you arguing that her recollection is made up?
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Do you struggle to understand the most basic of stances?
1 - Her recollection of the conversation doesn't make the lady-in-waiting racist, nor is it a racist question given the context of the event.
2 - Trusting someone to recall a conversation verbatim that took place hours before is a fool's game, you can ask 2 people or as many as you like to do the same, and not one would have the same outcome.
 
Look the thing is if someone has an accent it is fairly reasonable and acceptable to ask what 'country are you from originally' during a conversation. It shouldnt be the first question unless you are a bit racist and it bothers you.
 
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Jono8 said:
That isnt what i am saying. I am saying that if you want to debate the actual words used (which is the main issue in this entire debate), you have to accept (for the sake of the argument), that it is accurate.
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But no one has a problem with that, you can assume (for the sake of argument) that the transcript is true and point out that it's still not racist but you can also point out that in reality, it's unlikely to be 100% accurate, we've just got the gist of some interaction where maybe the trope phrase was used, there was seemingly a back and forth and eventually Lady SH got the answer she was trying to get at.

You don't need to the transcript to be accurate to discuss the incident and it likely isn't accurate both as a default (because of human memory issues) and in addition because the apparent victim has shown herself to be both dishonest and prone to making hyperbolic accusations.

Tony Edwards said:
Look the thing is if someone has an accent it is fairly reasonable and acceptable to ask what 'country are you from originally' during a conversation. It shouldnt be the first question unless you are a bit racist and it bothers you.
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This sort of thing is nonsense, new rule just dropped by Tony, it's OK to ask but not if it's the first question, then it's racist... this is just really sloppy thinking, the order of asking something benign like that doesn't make it racist.
 
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Tony Edwards said:
Look the thing is if someone has an accent it is fairly reasonable and acceptable to ask what country are you from originally during a conversation. It shouldnt be the first question unless you are a bit racist and it bothers you.
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Why is it "a bit racist" if it is their first question?
 
dowie said:
But no one has a problem with that, you can assume (for the sake of argument) that the transcript is true and point out that it's still not racist but you can also point out that in reality, it's unlikely to be 100% accurate, we've just got the gist of some interaction where maybe the trope phrase was used, there was seemingly a back and forth and eventually Lady SH got the answer she was trying to get at.

You don't need to the transcript to be accurate to discuss the incident and it likely isn't accurate both as a default (because of human memory issues) and in addition because the apparent victim has shown herself to be both dishonest and prone to making hyperbolic accusations.
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Then why bring up the transcript not being accurate then?
 
dowie said:
Why not? It's pretty pertinent to point that out when people are relying on it for their take on the whole scenario as it's rather a dubious thing to rely on.
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Not it isn't. It is just a lame response to use when people in this thread have had nothing useful to counter with.

"yeh ....well, i don't think the transcript is accurate anyway"

Surely if a well known racist trope like phrase was used, and the conversation made you feel uneasy/interrogated, then it would be very easy to remember?

I don't believe the Palace and SH have disputed the transcript and there is an eye witness who has also not disputed it, and backed NF. I therefore think, that to think the transcript is dubious is just your own inherent bias creeping in.
 
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C Kent said:
It's not a transcript, it's a recollection from memory, 2 very distinct things. Given people's 'character testimony' that have popped up on Twitter etc I wouldn't trust the grifter's version of events without question no, especially as apparently words, not context or intent are the important factor according to folks such as yourself.
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The palace is not denying the recollection as reported. The actions taken by the palace say to me that the recollection is correct, it was pretty obviously racist and there was no getting out of it for them.
 
Tony Edwards said:
Look the thing is if someone has an accent it is fairly reasonable and acceptable to ask what 'country are you from originally' during a conversation. It shouldnt be the first question unless you are a bit racist and it bothers you.
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I dunno man, when you are wearing your "culture" on your sleeve it seems like fair game discussion.
 
110% said:
The palace is not denying the recollection as reported. The actions taken by the palace say to me that the recollection is correct, it was pretty obviously racist and there was no getting out of it for them.
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Given she's 83, her main job role is essentially redundant after the queen's passing they've probably decided it's the easy thing to do. I doubt they knew the type of person NF was prior to the charade, they might have handled it differently if they did, who knows.
 
Jono8 said:
Not it isn't. It is just a lame response to use when people in this thread have had nothing useful to counter with.

"yeh ....well, i don't think the transcript is accurate anyway"

Surely if a well known racist trope like phrase was used, and the conversation made you feel uneasy/interrogated, then it would be very easy to remember?
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Yes it might well be, again read what I already wrote on that, I literally quoted it for you a few posts back and you're acting like you've got amnesia again. I don't think it's inherently racist just because it's a trope, it would be easier to recall if some trope were used but then again the victim isn't an honest person either.

Jono8 said:
I don't believe the Palace and SH have disputed the transcript and there is an eye witness who has also not disputed it, and backed NF. I therefore think, that to think the transcript is dubious is just your own inherent bias creeping in.
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Does the eyewitness have a photographic memory too or are they just backing up the gist of what happened that there was some back and forth which turned rather awkward?

I don't think anyone is disputing that the interaction occurred or the general gist of it, though if you're wondering why Lady SH is silent on the matter or are trying to read into that then you're again being naive and ignoring context.

The royals are, for obvious reasons, already rather sensitive to accusations of racism, Lady SH isn't a family member and the main aim of the palace here is to protect the monarchy, having her step down was clearly seen by them as the way to go. It's not the done thing for insiders to talk to the press and I doubt she can recall the exact words used line by line either, even if she could recall some individual line or phrasing and believes it's been misrepresented she's not necessarily in a position to issue some statement about any minor correction... would that help matters PR wise? Doubtful + she's probably letting the palace deal with the press.
 
dowie said:
Yes it might well be, again read what I already wrote on that, I literally quoted it for you a few posts back and you're acting like you've got amnesia again. I don't think it's inherently racist just because it's a trope, it would be easier to recall if some trope were used but then again the victim isn't an honest person either.



Does the eyewitness have a photographic memory too or are they just backing up the gist of what happened that there was some back and forth which turned rather awkward?

I don't think anyone is disputing that the interaction occurred or the general gist of it, though if you're wondering why Lady SH is silent on the matter or are trying to read into that then you're again being naive and ignoring context.

The royals are, for obvious reasons, already rather sensitive to accusations of racism, Lady SH isn't a family member and the main aim of the palace here is to protect the monarchy, having her step down was clearly seen by them as the way to go. It's not the done thing for insiders to talk to the press and I doubt she can recall the exact words used line by line either, even if she could recall some individual line or phrasing and believes it's been misrepresented she's not necessarily in a position to issue some statement about any minor correction... would that help matters PR wise? Doubtful + she's probably letting the palace deal with the press.
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So...basically all things you have made up and assumed in your head?
 
110% said:
The palace is not denying the recollection as reported. The actions taken by the palace say to me that the recollection is correct, it was pretty obviously racist and there was no getting out of it for them.
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How would the palace know either way. Does Lady SH have a photographic memory the palace is 100% sure is correct? Doubtful, most humans couldn't remember that exact convo line for line, more like the general gist of it and maybe some phrasing used.
 
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