Assange to go!
- Thread starter Hitman_Leon
- Start date
Soldato
And so this whole rotten saga comes to a stinky end.
Right, so a guilty plea isn't an admission of guilt as the other poster claimed. If someone has a gun to your head you sign whether you're guilty or innocent.
Caporegime
A guilty plea is definitionally an admission of guilt. But then I don't think Assange has ever claimed he wasn't guilty of these charges in the US, rather he has claimed that he was right to do it anyway and should be let off on journalistic grounds, so I don't see what difference it really makes?
A guilty plea under coercion is definitionally a false confession.
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Caporegime
If you're going to define a plea deal as "under coercion" then you're throwing out a sizeable proportion - probably even a majority - of all criminal convictions. I find that rather ridiculous. But Assange is very fond of making absurdist statements which his followers will then parrot ad nauseam - just look at his thread.
It's a bit different to a normal plea deal in that he was offered to walk free for time served rather than a reduced sentence. I'm not saying I think Assange is innocent, just pointing out that it wasn't an admission of guilt.
Caporegime
Technically it's for a reduced sentence, and he's walking free because the time he's been detained already is getting counted towards that sentence. Mostly a technicality, but I think it makes a difference in some future circumstances.
He can cross his fingers behind his back all he wants, and I expect he'll claim he didn't mean it afterwards, but it is still an admission of guilt. He walked into the District Court for the Northern Mariana Islands in Saipan, presumably swore to tell the truth (not sure how it works in that system), and told the Judge that he was guilty of the charge before him. Prior to that he agreed, in writing, that he was guilty.
Plead guilty and you'll walk free, otherwise you might spend the rest of your life in prison. If that doesn't meet the definition of coercion then I don't know what does.
Caporegime
The Assange plea agreement has been released. He confessed to recruiting hackers who could steal information for him.
(Source).
He agreed to return or destroy any unpublished material still held by Wikileaks.
(Source).
This is a bitter blow to the conspiracy theorists. because they believed he was saving his best stuff for last, and would use it to take down the government if it looked like he might be convicted. Now that fanasy has evaporated.
Assange also surrendered his right to further discovery.
(Source).
Finally, he waived any legal action against the US government.
(Source).
This was a complete and utter capitulation.
It literally was, that's what a guilty plea is. He's now a convicted felon.
(Source).
He agreed to return or destroy any unpublished material still held by Wikileaks.
(Source).
This is a bitter blow to the conspiracy theorists. because they believed he was saving his best stuff for last, and would use it to take down the government if it looked like he might be convicted. Now that fanasy has evaporated.
Assange also surrendered his right to further discovery.
(Source).
Finally, he waived any legal action against the US government.
(Source).
This was a complete and utter capitulation.
It literally was, that's what a guilty plea is. He's now a convicted felon.
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A guilty plea obtained through coercion is literally called a false confession.
Soldato
So every guilty plea is coercion is it? Because in every case they tell you what they have and what you are looking at if you don't plead and then you either plead or roll the dice. He chose to plead. He could have gone to the US and had his day in court at a trail. He has now stood in front of a judge and said he is pleading guilty, he admits his guilt and that is his decision and he gives up any rights to appeal.
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Every guilty plea where they've been offered to walk free by pleading guilty or stay in prison for years if they don't is coercion. It's a bit ridiculous of you to suggest all plea deals are coercion, but there's no doubt a significant portion are coerced false confessions where an innocent person has pleaded guilty for a reduced sentence, it's a broken system that favours efficiency over justice.
That's America for you...
Soldato
Ok so you commit a crime. You are offered a non custodial sentence if you plead guilty or if you go to trial you are looking at years in jail. If you take the deal is it coercion? If you break the law then you are simply being offered a choice, not forced into it.
Yes innocent people are in jail. What is worse though, being innocent and in jail after going to trial and being found guilty or taking a deal and not being in jail?
I do agree that the US system where they pile on charges to get a plea deal is wrong, that isn't what happened here though.
Lets not forget he did what he is accused of. And since then he has worked with Russia to interfere in US elections. Wouldn't surprise me if he'd done similar with other elections as well. He's a self serving douche bag.
The big flaw in this argument is your assumption that Assange committed a crime.
Soldato
He did. He conspired with Chelsea Manning to crack a password to use an account to download classified documents. This wasn't like Snowdon handing over files he'd already taken to the press, Assange was in contact with her to use this other account. That is illegal and any member of the press that did that would face jail. You can print this stuff but you can't in any way have been in on how they were obtained or attempted to obtain even if the attempt was unsuccessful, that is still a criminal offence.
