Assange to go!

desires said:
The swedes can deport people easier. Heck, we can't even get rid of Abu Qatada.
Click to expand...

The Swedes are subject to exactly the same European Laws and courts as us. It was European Court Of Human Rights stopping Qatada being extradited, not UK law or unwillingness on our part.

Again Gary McKinon and Richard O'Dwyer would disagree with you on the UK's willingness to extradite to the US.
 
estebanrey said:
The Swedes are subject to exactly the same European Laws and courts as us. It was European Court Of Human Rights stopping Qatada being extradited, not UK law or unwillingness on our part.

Again Gary McKinon and Richard O'Dwyer would disagree with you on the UK's willingness to extradite to the US.
Click to expand...

Neither of these people have actually been extradited yet though because of the UK's appeal system. Not to mention Gary committed an offence on US soil (the servers he hacked are in US (and even this fact is arguable as to whether the US have a case)). Assange released documents to a non-US website while not in the US. Unless he went to america in the first place to steal the files (which he didn't) then he shouldn't be subject to any US law or extradition request. It's a simple case of America thinking they own the internet again and the rest of the world is letting them get away with it.
 
Last edited:
estebanrey said:
The Swedes are subject to exactly the same European Laws and courts as us. It was European Court Of Human Rights stopping Qatada being extradited, not UK law or unwillingness on our part.
Click to expand...

But wasn't there some sort of hoo-hah in 2005/6 when the Swedes handed someone over to the U.S. who promptly tortured/made him dissapear?
 
I previously saw various US news stories on this and they all labelled Assage a traitor and unpatriotic. They seem to forget that he's not a US citizen so can't really be a traitor to the US and has no reason to be patriotic towards them.
 
desires said:
Neither of these people have actually been extradited yet though because of the UK's appeal system. Not to mention Gary committed an offence on US soil (the servers he hacked are in US (and even this fact is arguable as to whether the US have a case)). Assange released documents to a non-US website while not in the US. Unless he went to america in the first place to steal the files (which he didn't) then he shouldn't be subject to any US law or extradition request. It's a simple case of America thinking they own the internet again and the rest of the world is letting them get away with it.
Click to expand...

but he is wanted in Sweden for questioning about rape / sex assault so he should go there first, clear himself and then fight extradition from Sweden and not the UK TBH.....................
 
estebanrey said:
But that would have happened with ANY allegation levelled against him and the conspiracy theory relies on him being convicted or extradited to Sweden from where he will be passed to the US authorities.

If you have a different CT where the crime was fabricated solely to make his life a bit of hassle but doesn't result in the US trying to get their hands on him that is a different theory and not one I was answering.

Besides his day to day involvement with Wikileaks stopped long before these allegation arose.
Click to expand...

No, you said it was a poor crime to use. I pointed out it did exactly what we would assume would be the intention and therefore your point is invalid.
 
desires said:
Neither of these people have actually been extradited yet though because of the UK's appeal system. Not to mention Gary committed an offence on US soil (the servers he hacked are in US (and even this fact is arguable as to whether the US have a case)). Assange released documents to a non-US website while not in the US. Unless he went to america in the first place to steal the files (which he didn't) then he shouldn't be subject to any US law or extradition request. It's a simple case of America thinking they own the internet again and the rest of the world is letting them get away with it.
Click to expand...

But the US haven't applied for any extradition on Assange have they? It seems you are so convinced by the conspiracy theory that you're now confusing what has happened with what you think has happened.

A few stupid US congressmen have made silly statements about how Assange should be assassinated or extradited but they say stupid stuff like this all the time, you only have to watch Faux News for 5 minutes to hear make all manner of silly claims.

Whether they'd actually have the balls to try an official extradition request is another matter. And if they did make it, I still don't see why Sweden would be so willing to hand him over and we wouldn't.

Sweden couldn't politically be more different than the US, it's one of the most liberal and socialist countries in the world, why would they want to bend over to a country that is far more conservative and capitalist when they could just let the UK do it instead.
 
Xordium said:
No, you said it was a poor crime to use. I pointed out it did exactly what we would assume would be the intention and therefore your point is invalid.
Click to expand...

No you pointed out that the accusation has made his life a nightmare but that isn't what the conspiracy theory says is the intention. The CT that Julian subscribes to is that the ultimate point is to get him convicted and extradited to the US.

So the "fabricated crime" is a rubbish one is that if the ultimate intention. There are far more water tight allegations that could have been made that don't involve having to use outsiders (the women) who at any point in the future could open their mouths.
 
Personally I couldn't really give a damn about him. He is not British anyway. All he is doing is sticking the UK in the awkward situation. We don't even want him.

If he gets out of the Country the Swedes and US are going be furious with us and if we have to get him we will probably upset most of South America.

Personally I would just leave him in the embassy to rot. Make sure he has no way of leaving, let the Ecuadorians feed, cloth and pay for him. They don't exactly have the greatest reputation for human rights in their own country so the whole thing is hypocritical at best.

Some spokesman for them says they expect the UK to offer him safe passage in the next two weeks. So laughable after the way they have just spoken about us.

I also wonder if Assange or the Ecuadorians will pay back the people who lost their bail money for supporting this clown? Do you think they new he intended to do a bunk if he couldn't have his own way?
 
estebanrey said:
No you pointed out that the accusation has made his life a nightmare but that isn't what the conspiracy theory says is the intention. The CT that Julian subscribes to is that the ultimate point is to get him convicted and extradited to the US.

So the "fabricated crime" is a rubbish one is that if the ultimate intention. There are far more water tight allegations that could have been made that don't involve having to use outsiders (the women) who at any point in the future could open their mouths.
Click to expand...

If this is only about rape accusations, then why can't Sweden and the UK guarantee that he will be safe from extradition to the US?
 
Xordium said:
If this is only about rape accusations, then why can't Sweden and the UK guarantee that he will be safe from extradition to the US?
Click to expand...

They have been trying too for months now. Considering UK is always accused of being the Americans lap dog, makes you wonder why he felt safe here in the first place? I would imagine because he knew there was no chance of it happening here and probably even less in Sweden.
 
Xordium said:
If this is only about rape accusations, then why can't Sweden and the UK guarantee that he will be safe from extradition to the US?
Click to expand...

If Wikileaks are so good at uncovering conspiracies, how come there is not a shred of evidence this is one big trap to get Assange to face trial in the US and the only place this idea has come from is Assange himself?

For every "if this is real" question you throw out, there are just as many if not more you can fire back at the conspiracy theory.
 
Lets look at the facts for a moment:
  • Assange in Ecuadorian embassy of UK
  • Wanted in Sweden for questioning regarding an allegation of rape
  • Assange requesting promise there will be no extradition to US
  • UK threaten to kick down embassy doors
  • Assange becomes a refugee to Ecaudor

Anything else is opinions and guesses.

Does the US want him? Who knows, but why wouldn't the UK/Sweden sign off on the promise of no extradition? Is this day and age you'd have thought Sweden could have questioned him via skype in the embassy or something similar or does this possiblility open questions as to whether he did do the rape, he does have a seedy look about him after all.
 
estebanrey said:
If Wikileaks are so good at uncovering conspiracies, how come there is not a shred of evidence this is one big trap to get Assange to face trial in the US and the only place this idea has come from is Assange himself?

For every "if this is real" question you throw out, there are just as many if not more you can fire back at the conspiracy theory.
Click to expand...

So you can't answer that one then.
 
Xordium said:
So you can't answer that one then.
Click to expand...

You're missing the point. As I stated earlier conspiracy theorist always make the religious type argument (coming up with the conclusion then trying to prove it by casting doubt on the official story) rather than the scientific approach of looking at the evidence, coming up with a theory and then trying to refute it before you accept it as fact.

Ergo, instead of asking me questions about the official story, as the one making the conspiracy claim the burden of proof is on you to prove it not on me to defend the official story.

But to answer you original question (despite the fact you dodged mine) they can't guarantee him safety from extradition to the States because governments never guarantee anything. What happens if they guarantee him immunity from extradition then a year later it turns out Assange has committed a crime on US soil, what happens then? If they send him off they'll be accused of going back on their promise, if they don't they'd be allowing someone to get off from justice.

Have you ever seen that episode of Only Fools & Horses where Del is promised immunity from prosecution if he testifies and names the perpetrator only for him to reveal himself as the criminal once it's granted? That's why you don't make promises to protect people from future actions against them.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom