Assassins Creed Shadows - AC finally (at last) heads to Japan

[Amatsubu]

Hey gave you got links to all this? This whole fraud thing sounds fascinating. I've got a book of Kuniyoshi woodblocks and I'm sure I've seen the black samurai in them. It would be cool to know the true story

The black samurai depictions can be found in fiction/mythology etc. but what Lockley did was turning a bunch of lines from 家忠日記 (Ietada's Diary) IIRC into a full book of pure conjecture and gap-filling and then trying to sell it as actual history. He'd been editing the Wikipedia page for Yasuke for many years under the alias tottoritom before he got exposed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/YasukeYanaikai/comments/1e38o71/how_to_edit_history_by_thomas_lockley_aka/ This thread has a link to a page outlining his involvement in editing the article but it's in Japanese. The thread itself is in English, though.

https://agora-web.jp/archives/240719075712.html This is also in Japanese unfortunately but it has bits in English I think, I can look through it later and paste the important bits.


There's very little doubt there was a black man "serving" under Nobunaga at the time but he was not a samurai and certainly nothing like Lockley presented, the Japanese themselves were baffled because Yasuke is a figure of practically no historical relevance whatsoever.

I reckon there's quite a lot about it in English, you can probably find stuff just by googling Thomas Lockley.

 

[Noxia]

Well, game release have been pushed forward another month again.

Assassin's Creed Shadows Delayed Again, This Time by Another Month - IGN

Ubisoft has delayed Assassin's Creed Shadows yet again, this time by a month.

www.ign.com

It's backwards, and how did you miss the post about it already lol.

 

[Tombstone]

The black samurai depictions can be found in fiction/mythology etc. but what Lockley did was turning a bunch of lines from 家忠日記 (Ietada's Diary) IIRC into a full book of pure conjecture and gap-filling and then trying to sell it as actual history. He'd been editing the Wikipedia page for Yasuke for many years under the alias tottoritom before he got exposed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/YasukeYanaikai/comments/1e38o71/how_to_edit_history_by_thomas_lockley_aka/ This thread has a link to a page outlining his involvement in editing the article but it's in Japanese. The thread itself is in English, though.

https://agora-web.jp/archives/240719075712.html This is also in Japanese unfortunately but it has bits in English I think, I can look through it later and paste the important bits.


There's very little doubt there was a black man "serving" under Nobunaga at the time but he was not a samurai and certainly nothing like Lockley presented, the Japanese themselves were baffled because Yasuke is a figure of practically no historical relevance whatsoever.

I reckon there's quite a lot about it in English, you can probably find stuff just by googling Thomas Lockley.

So it sounds like Yasuke is similar to Robin Hood, in terms of historical accuracy, in that there was someone but not someone that was like the stories of them portray

 

[Amatsubu]

So it sounds like Yasuke is similar to Robin Hood, in terms of historical accuracy, in that there was someone but not someone that was like the stories of them portray

There's just too little about him in Japanese texts to say exactly who he was with any degree of accuracy but I suppose it's a fair comparison give the legendary growth both have undergone. However, Robin Hood is much more vivid of a legend in the minds of the British (do please correct me on that if I'm wrong) than Yasuke has ever been in the minds of the Japanese.

All that is known about Yasuke is there was a black man whom Nobunaga probably kept around as as sort of a "trophy" to show off, because he obviously stood out, and he was most likely given a stipend. He might have been a retainer at best. He never fought in any actual battles and there are no records of him after the Honno-Ji incident, where Nobunaga was assasinated.
The rest is pure conjecture.

IMO, he'd have made a fantastic addition to the story in the form of a quest chain, not as one of the main protagonists with this sort of shady marketing, when there are plenty of actual Sengoku-era historical figures to choose from.

 

[Noxia]

I'm going to level with you all here and I doubt this is a hot take but I do not give two ***** about historical accuracy of these games when you are playing someone sat in some weird time machine that you can go back into people's memories with and the whole aliens stuff lol.

I suspect anyone who is hiding behind the veil of historical accuracy is really just too much of a weasel to admit why they are really upset about it.

 

[Amatsubu]

I'm going to level with you all here and I doubt this is a hot take but I do not give two ***** about historical accuracy of these games when you are playing someone sat in some weird time machine that you can go back into people's memories with and the whole aliens stuff lol.

I suspect anyone who is hiding behind the veil of historical accuracy is really just too much of a weasel to admit why they are really upset about it.

Then the point flew over you head completely but I suppose that's a given, seeing how you usually respond to these issues. What you "suspect" about random individuals on the internet is also completely irrelevant, the only relevant thing is what's been done and what the main protagonist's been marketed as. I don't care about complete historical accuracy in games but I do appreciate transparency. If you think that anything goes and that suspension of disbelief has no limits in a title marketed as "accurately representing a period" and featuring the "first historical protagonist in the series", then fair play to you but I would at least refrain from calling people "weasels" if you haven't even researched the topic properly and seem to have no real interest in it.

 

[Tombstone]

There's just too little about him in Japanese texts to say exactly who he was with any degree of accuracy but I suppose it's a fair comparison give the legendary growth both have undergone. However, Robin Hood is much more vivid of a legend in the minds of the British (do please correct me on that if I'm wrong) than Yasuke has ever been in the minds of the Japanese.

That might be due to there being countless movies and tv shows of Robin Hood for the last 100 years than Yasuke has had perhaps, I wonder how vivid a legend Robin Hood was in the minds of the British before the invention of TVs/Movies.

I'm going to level with you all here and I doubt this is a hot take but I do not give two ***** about historical accuracy of these games when you are playing someone sat in some weird time machine that you can go back into people's memories with and the whole aliens stuff lol.

I can understand that, ultimately as long as the game is fun to play then I cant say that I am too bothered about whether I am playing as a black samurai or a female ninja or a shape shifting alien

 

[Noxia]

Then the point flew over you head completely but I suppose that's a given, seeing how you usually respond to these issues. What you "suspect" about random individuals on the internet is also completely irrelevant, the only relevant thing is what's been done and what the main protagonist's been marketed as. I don't care about complete historical accuracy in games but I do appreciate transparency. If you think that anything goes and that suspension of disbelief has no limits in a title marketed as "accurately representing a period" and featuring the "first historical protagonist in the series", then fair play to you but I would at least refrain from calling people "weasels" if you haven't even researched the topic properly and seem to have no real interest in it.

I was just speaking generally. The fact you decided to make it about you probably says more than I was trying to say with my comment.
I hadn't even read your posts in detail, I skim read and made my post. I've never thought of you as part of the crowd who gets upset about these things for what its worth.

And yes I will always call it out because I like watching the mental gymnastics that follow when people who are obviously upset about such things, try and make out it's part of something bigger.

 

[Tombstone]

Then the point flew over you head completely but I suppose that's a given, seeing how you usually respond to these issues. What you "suspect" about random individuals on the internet is also completely irrelevant, the only relevant thing is what's been done and what the main protagonist's been marketed as. I don't care about complete historical accuracy in games but I do appreciate transparency. If you think that anything goes and that suspension of disbelief has no limits in a title marketed as "accurately representing a period" and featuring the "first historical protagonist in the series", then fair play to you but I would at least refrain from calling people "weasels" if you haven't even researched the topic properly and seem to have no real interest in it.

I guess the issue stems not so much from the character but rather their claim that its the first historical protagonist, maybe if they hadnt claimed that, just kept it as a fictional black samurai character there would be less of a kerfuffle about it, though possibly not as beating down on Ubisoft seems to be rather a "thing" for many gamers, despite some of the amazing games they've come out with.

 

[Amatsubu]

I was just speaking generally. The fact you decided to make it about you probably says more than I was trying to say with my comment.
I hadn't even read your posts in detail, I skim read and made my post. I've never thought of you as part of the crowd who gets upset about these things for what its worth.

And yes I will always call it out because I like watching the mental gymnastics that follow when people who are obviously upset about such things, try and make out it's part of something bigger.

Yeah, because that's how your post sounds and you keep making further assumptions about what it supposedly says about me, while admitting you haven't read my point in detail, and now we're starting to delve into the whole "mental gymnastics" bit, hilarious.

I don't particularly care because, if the game is like AC Valhalla, I won't even play it. I just offered a clarification and some additional facts because apparently people throwing unfounded theories around here are fine by you but when someone chimes in with a bit of an actual explanation, then they must clearly have an agenda.

 

[Noxia]

Yeah, because that's how your post sounds and you keep making further assumptions about what it supposedly says about me, while admitting you haven't read my point in detail, and now we're starting to delve into the whole "mental gymnastics" bit, hilarious.

I don't particularly care because, if the game is like AC Valhalla, I won't even play it. I just offered a clarification and some additional facts because apparently people throwing unfounded theories around here are fine by you but when someone chimes in with a bit of an actual explanation, then they must clearly have an agenda.

Again, making it about you. Cool, have a good day

 

[Amatsubu]

Again, making it about you. Cool, have a good day

Oh yeah, I post a bunch of historical facts about Yasuke and explain some stuff, then you suddenly chime in with "I suspect anyone hiding behind the veil of historical accuracy is too much of a weasel" etc. I have no idea how I could have possibly made that connection just after I had written a bunch of longer sentences about historical accuracy. My bad, I'll behave next time

 

[Borsch]

Most of the uproar wasn't because there's was a black samurai in the game, it was because they were trying to sell him as a real historical person by using the writings of a FRAUD to back it all up. They marketed Yasuke as "the first HISTORICAL protagonist" in the series, and that's an actual quote, which is a complete joke.

Also, quite ironically, you've posted the exact Wikipedia page that has been heavily tampered with by said fraud, Thomas Lockley, who's behind the entire legendary growth of Yasuke and who has since been condemned by actual Japanese historians and the university cut all ties with him, just a heads-up Britannica/Smithsonian also relied on him as a "credible" source.

Thomas Lockley is still listed as Associate Professor on the said uni's page (Nihon Uni: https://researcher-web.nihon-u.ac.j...yword=Lockley&lang=en&st=researcher&type=Name)
Smithsonian article was written by Jacquelyne Germain in 2023 and is still there https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/who-was-yasuke-japans-first-black-samurai-180981416/
Britannica's Lockley article also has not yet been retracted https://www.britannica.com/biography/Yasuke , it also shows as "fact checked by the editors".

https://www.reddit.com/r/YasukeYanaikai/comments/1e38o71/how_to_edit_history_by_thomas_lockley_aka/ This thread has a link to a page outlining his involvement in editing the article but it's in Japanese. The thread itself is in English, though.

https://agora-web.jp/archives/240719075712.html This is also in Japanese unfortunately but it has bits in English I think, I can look through it later and paste the important bits.

This is trial by twitter and trial by reddit. The agora site shows a bunch of anti Lockley tweets. Not to say that fraud never happens in academia https://www.science.org/content/art...er-committed-fraud-us-investigation-concludes , but great accusations require great evidence.

There's very little doubt there was a black man "serving" under Nobunaga at the time but he was not a samurai and certainly nothing like Lockley presented, the Japanese themselves were baffled because Yasuke is a figure of practically no historical relevance whatsoever.

If Yasuke was Nobunaga's retainer rather than samurai, and if retainer may be loosely translated as samurai into English https://web.prm.ox.ac.uk/weapons/index.php/tour-by-region/oceania/asia/arms-and-armour-asia-133/index.html#:~:text=A retainer refers to a,a samurai providing military services.
... Then, was this uproar warranted?
Reading the translated Japanese tweets, people are angry about Lockley passing the blame for slavery from white westerners to Asians. Does he pass this blame or doesn't he (not a serious question )? Does it matter to AC?

 

[spudbynight]

I was just thinking about something. Ubisoft's financial problems have been widely discussed recently.

If someone bought AC Shadows on UPlay (or any other games for that matter) and Ubisoft went belly up, what then?

 

[Tombstone]

I was just thinking about something. Ubisoft's financial problems have been widely discussed recently.

If someone bought AC Shadows on UPlay (or any other games for that matter) and Ubisoft went belly up, what then?

Probably the same thing that would happen to all our games on Steam if Valve went belly up and Steam could no longer start up, that being that something would be put out which negates the need to start up the launcher application

 

[spudbynight]

Probably the same thing that would happen to all our games on Steam if Valve went belly up and Steam could no longer start up, that being that something would be put out which negates the need to start up the launcher application

Steam have previously promised to provide non steam copy protected downloads of everyone's Steam library in the event of it shutting down. I kind of trust Gabe to do what is right in a way that I don't trust the company which shutdown The Crew despite having offline code ready to push out to players.

 

[Tombstone]

Steam have previously promised to provide non steam copy protected downloads of everyone's Steam library in the event of it shutting down. I kind of trust Gabe to do what is right in a way that I don't trust the company which shutdown The Crew despite having offline code ready to push out to players.

Maybe I'm just a more trusting person then

 

[Mint8]

The fact it keeps getting delayed suggests its not that great and UBI are desperate for the devs to salvage something out of the scrap pile.

 

[Tombstone]

The fact it keeps getting delayed suggests its not that great and UBI are desperate for the devs to salvage something out of the scrap pile.

It actually makes a lot of sense to delay it til March...they were going to release in Mid-February, which would have been madness because February has the releases of Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 , Civilization 7, Avowed, Monster Hunter Wilds and Like a Dragon Pirate Yakuza...so a crazy stacked month, by moving it to March they have a pretty clear month because theres not a lot releasing in March. No matter what the game is like, if I was in marketing/sales I'd have been screaming why are we releasing alongside all of that when just a 1 month delay puts us into a completely open clear window.

 

[Noxia]

Gone verrrrrrry quiet in here.