ATI cuts 6950 allocation

wolvers · 6 Dec 2010 at 14:50

The 470 has been EOL pricing for ages now, nearly 2 months IIRC. They had no choice really, selling stock at a loss is better than not selling it at all.

I'm convinced that all GPU prices would be lower if NV weren't making such huge cores. AMD are probably raking it in right now.

Mr Krugga · 6 Dec 2010 at 14:50

Rroff said:
Actually I was comparing the 6780 to the 470. The 6870 is generally just slightly faster in a lot of things yet is still more expensive even than the 470.

Another false statement, the cheapest GeForce 470s cost £180 in the UK, the cheapest Radeon 6870s can be had for £170 (prices include VAT and delivery; cards in stock). In the US their priced equally, the cheapest ones go for $240 since HD6870's launch.

Rroff · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:01

Not really a false statement, I did a quick average over the main sites, I expect if I dug around I could find a 470 dirt cheap too.

vorticalspace · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:02

drunkenmaster said:
This sounds more and more like a 6950, if the 6950 beats a 580gtx, I'll laugh.

Pure speculation :rolleyes:

Stick to facts, of which their aren't any

With regards to the GTX580, if as some people have suggested, it was rushed out as a spoiler to steal a bit of market share and AMD's thunder, what would be the point of Nvidia hatching that particular plot and then having apparently so few cards to initially sell, and then as looks likely(rumoured) get hammered when the 6970 is released.

It's not what you would exactly call a long term strategy is it :confused:

Surely, Nvidia dont believe that the top end GPU market can be satisfied by a few stray 580's

The noises coming from Nvidia are that they are confident that the 580 will hold onto their fastest single GPU crown.

Yes, they would say that, but i fail to see any other reason why Nvidia would release the 580 and then not support the release with quantities of cards.
They've had over 12 months to get the GF112 into retail and you would think, build up some stock.

Can't really see why Nvidia would "muddy the water" with the 580 for no apparent long term benefit.
By the time etailer price gouging had diminished, the 6970 would be out anyway.

An Exception · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:04

vorticalspace said:
Pure speculation

Stick to facts, of which their aren't any

With regards to the GTX580, if as some people have suggested, it was rushed out as a spoiler to steal a bit of market share and AMD's thunder, what would be the point of Nvidia hatching that particular plot and then having apparently so few cards to initially sell, and then as looks likely(rumoured) get hammered when the 6970 is released.

It's not what you would exactly call a long term strategy is it

Surely, Nvidia dont believe that the top end GPU market can be satisfied by a few stray 580's

The noises coming from Nvidia are that they are confident that the 580 will hold onto their fastest single GPU crown.

Yes, they would say that, but i fail to see any other reason why Nvidia would release the 580 and then not support the release with quantities of cards.
They've had over 12 months to get the GF112 into retail and you would think, build up some stock.

Can't really see why Nvidia would "muddy the water" with the 580 for no apparent long term benefit.
By the time etailer price gouging had diminished, the 6970 would be out anyway.

It wasn't released to steal market share, as that's pretty much impossible considering the amount of supply.

Edit:
Also Nvidia had a very important investors meeting and needed some good news...

BS Dave · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:09

To be honest i think the nvidia strategy at the moment is 'stay in the game'

kylew · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:10

555BUK said:
*5870 was ~20% slower than GTX480 and was released at £300+.
*5850 was released at £200 but quickly revised to £240+. This was also ~20% slower than GTX470.

*If all 6970's have 2GB of fast GDDR5 this raises the manufacture cost.
*ATI will not release the 6900's at above price points if performance is equal or better than GTX580 & GTX570.

I think you're getting a bit carried away with your numbers there. 5870 was release a long time before a GTX480 for £300, 5850s were released way before GTX470s (and seriously, no they weren't 20% slower, I'm not sure why you'd even suggest that :confused:

) and they weren't "revised to £240". Some retailers price gouged them to £240, maybe, but it doesn't mean you couldn't get 5850s for sub £200 and 5870s for sub £300...

vorticalspace · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:18

Ejizz said:
Edit:
Also Nvidia had a very important investors meeting and needed some good news...

Who with, the chuckle brothers

vorticalspace · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:20

Ejizz said:
It wasn't released to steal market share, as that's pretty much impossible considering the amount of supply.

So, to muddy the water and keep the chuckle brothers happy

Jibber55 · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:21

vorticalspace said:
Pure speculation

Stick to facts, of which their aren't any

With regards to the GTX580, if as some people have suggested, it was rushed out as a spoiler to steal a bit of market share and AMD's thunder, what would be the point of Nvidia hatching that particular plot and then having apparently so few cards to initially sell, and then as looks likely(rumoured) get hammered when the 6970 is released.

It's not what you would exactly call a long term strategy is it

Surely, Nvidia dont believe that the top end GPU market can be satisfied by a few stray 580's

The noises coming from Nvidia are that they are confident that the 580 will hold onto their fastest single GPU crown.

Yes, they would say that, but i fail to see any other reason why Nvidia would release the 580 and then not support the release with quantities of cards.
They've had over 12 months to get the GF112 into retail and you would think, build up some stock.

Can't really see why Nvidia would "muddy the water" with the 580 for no apparent long term benefit.
By the time etailer price gouging had diminished, the 6970 would be out anyway.

Desperation per chance?

BS Dave · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:23

avid gamers both of them, love batman and hawx so nvidia was the obvious choice for them.

think they had a bit in that panorama that went out last month

Mr Krugga · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:24

Rroff said:
Not really a false statement, I did a quick average over the main sites, I expect if I dug around I could find a 470 dirt cheap too.

Yep, I shouldn't accuse you of making false statements. It's just the thread that is derailing with BS and that gets annoying pretty quickly.

kylew said:
I think you're getting a bit carried away with your numbers there. 5870 was release a long time before a GTX480 for £300, 5850s were released way before GTX470s (and seriously, no they weren't 20% slower, I'm not sure why you'd even suggest that ) and they weren't "revised to £240". Some retailers price gouged them to £240, maybe, but it doesn't mean you couldn't get 5850s for sub £200 and 5870s for sub £300...

Actually you could get a 5870 for £280 ish just after the release.

BS Dave said:
To be honest i think the nvidia strategy at the moment is 'stay in the game'

They've got plenty of cards that sell well, GTX460s and GTX470s to name a few. There is not enough stock of 580s that are sold at a really high mark-up and still sell well. GTX570 is just around the corner and should bring GTX480 and GTX580 (as soon as it's available :rolleyes:

) prices down a little.

They're fully in the game but might lose another year if AMD decides to undercut them price-wise.

krooton · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:25

I do love the effect that the release of a new gen of graphics card has on this forum

vorticalspace · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:25

Jibber55 said:
Desperation per chance?

Well, i guess.

It keeps them in the game and if truth be told, most reviews for the 580 were pretty positive in a 12 months late kind of way

BS Dave · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:26

plenty of cards that sell well - sure

plenty of cards they make a nice healthy profit on...

wolvers · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:28

Mr Krugga said:
They've got plenty of cards that sell well, GTX460s and GTX470s to name a few. There is not enough stock of 580s that are sold at a really high mark-up and still sell well. GTX570 is just around the corner and should bring GTX480 and GTX580 (as soon as it's available ) prices down a little.

They're fully in the game but might lose another year if AMD decides to undercut them price-wise.

470s at <£200 is not keeping NV in the lap of luxury, I'm sure. When you consider the core sizes of all of their current cards they must be struggling to make a decent profit. Added to that the supply issues of 580s and it could be pretty worrying for them. Worse again if 6950/6970 is faster and cheaper/same price as 570/580 respectively.

I wonder if Gibbo could tell us what the pre-orders are like for 580s?

Rroff · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:32

Mr Krugga said:
Yep, I shouldn't accuse you of making false statements. It's just the thread that is derailing with BS and that gets annoying pretty quickly.

This is the 3rd time I've had this discussion with DM and kylew, same story prior to 4 and 5 series releases, both times they trotted out the market share grab, silly low value for money prices and both times the prices were very different to what they were claiming so I find it odd they bring it up yet again.

EDIT: Seems it was finl8y and kylew last time actually not DM, but same view points.

flopper · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:36

NDA drop seems to be the 15dec.
Unless something changes it

BS Dave · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:38

Rroff - you can't deny that ATI/AMD have gained a hell of a lot of market share since their 3 series though

Sidney James · 6 Dec 2010 at 15:40

I think that this release is about killing Nvidia not about high profit for AMD(who have built up a nice war chest recently) if the 6970 didn't roger the 580 sideways then we would see more 580 stock about.I think the 580 was, as mentioned earlier, just for the shareholders(not a 'new' card so didn't really cost nvidia).Remember that a lot of us are running systems that could run a house's lighting (using old style bulbs!),don't think that this hasn't been noticed by powers that be!.Can imagine the outrage...'so these people are running 700watt loads for 6 hrs a day..hmmm..ok.WHAT! they're having fun? this must be stopped!.Expect restrictions on system power usage sooner rather than later.Now imagine that high power graphics cards are gone...AMD has its bulldozer system with efficient integrated graphics (which will improve..expect a sea change in motherboard architecture within 2 yrs) Intel has its own integrated graphics but...is 'PANTS' the word?..oh look here's Nvidia at a loose end with no card market! Intel + Nvidia beats amd, therefore Amd MUST kill off Nvidia while it has the money and share to do so.Expect really low prices and high performance from new 69** cards. :eek: